Burning Down the House

In this House, the M.D. doesn’t stand for More Debt
Here we are, two business days away from the hard ceiling on the debt limit, after blowing through the acoustic tiles a couple of months ago. And yet, there’s no passed increase in the debt ceiling. The House is supposed to be voting on their bill as we post this. It’s not clear that the House alone can pass a bill on the debt, let alone the House, Senate, and President together.
It’s fine to make a statement via one’s votes, or to grandstand in a debate. That’s the political side of government, and it’s a necessary part of getting people involved in the discussion. But, at the end of the day, government’s first job is to run the country. The debate comes second.
Drawing on my House reference above, it’s fine to remind an obese person who’s having a heart attack that they really need to diet. But perhaps the cardiopulmonary resuscitation is a little bit more important right now.
And so we have the Tea Party in the House, insisting that we must cut our calories, and do it now. And they’re waving a contract in front of the patient demanding he commit to a specific calorie load forever more — before chest compressions. Talk about the cart before the horse!
Yes, we need fiscal responsibility.
We need to cut our health care costs down to a level commensurate with the rest of the industrialized world. Most of the other cuts that have been discussed, while fine additions, are rounding errors compared to health care. Literally.
We also need to return our income taxes to realistic levels. Since the Nixon administration, income taxes were at about 10% of GDP (plus or minus a percent), until George W. Bush dropped it to 7%. Those three percent represent approximately half a trillion dollars a year. And that’s at our current GDP, which is significantly below its 2007 level.
Cutting health care costs will be complicated, but reverting the income tax is trivially easy. If the debt is truly the most important issue facing our nation today, as the Tea Party insists, then undoing the Bush tax cuts should be their number one priority. That it isn’t tells us that the debt is not their highest priority.
Meanwhile, the patient is still in cardiac arrest…
Related articles
- GOP bad faith on the debt ceiling | Kevin Gallagher (guardian.co.uk)
- Why Didn’t Democrats Raise The Debt Ceiling Last December? (outsidethebeltway.com)
- Democrats Will Get Their Turn When Bush Tax Cuts Expire (politicalwire.com)
- Short-term debt fix poses risks for Obama (guardian.co.uk)
- Both Sides of the Fiscal Equation (woodgatesview.wordpress.com)
- Obama’s ‘Balanced’ Approach — Thomas Sowell — Townhall Conservative (gds44.wordpress.com)
- The GOP’s debt ceiling war not about debt but about Obama (thegrio.com)
- Debt-ceiling crisis: How the GOP keeps outfoxing President Obama in negotiations. (slate.com)
- Something Obama Is Good at (lewrockwell.com)
- Robert Reich: The Biggest Driver in the Deficit Battle: Standard & Poor’s (huffingtonpost.com)

This entry was posted by Michael Weiss on July 28, 2011 at 3:00 pm, and is filed under Uncategorized. Follow any responses to this post through RSS 2.0.You can leave a response or trackback from your own site.
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#5 written by CaptainPlatypus 1 year ago
Well written as usual, Michael. Thanks for the updates, Filistro — if this isn’t crunch time, I don’t know what is. Keep ‘em coming.
Let’s talk “what if”. If this doesn’t pass the House, what happens? GOP gives up on their date for the next round of hostage negotiations? John Stewart takes back everything bad he’s said about Michelle Bachmann? The Tea Party bombards Boehner with milk and sugar?
Should be entertaining, as much as anything can be under the circumstances.
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The Freepers now say there are “25 patriots holding fast.” (i.e… “no” votes)
On the most current Freeper thread there are 44 posts praising “the brave 25 who are standing in the gap for America”… and one tiny voice of sanity saying this…
To: MinorityRepublican
Left unsaid is what the next move is if Boehner’s bill is defeated. How does that strengthen the GOP’s hand in the debt limit fight and how does that get us a more “conservative” bill here? I haven’t heard that explained. At the end of the day, something has to pass the Dem senate and get Obama’s signature. The real key is getting it through the senate. If it makes it through the senate, Obama will likely sign it. The trick is to get the most conservative possible bill through the senate. If Boehner’s bill blows up, how does that advance the conservative cause? And no matter what you think, it matters how Republicans come out of this battle politically. How does defeating Boehner’s bill strenghten them politically?
19 posted on July-28–11 4:11:29 PM by St. Louis Conservative
Never mind… I went back to check and “St. Louis Conservative” was brutally shouted down and has now disappeared. He was probably banned.
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#7 written by Brian 1 year ago
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So, if Boehner cannot flip a No vote, what does he do? Sit on the bill forever?
The Democratic plan had been to wait for the House vote, then to kill the bill in the Senate. After that, the Senate would pass the Reid bill (by reconciliation if necessary) and dare the House to reject it. The House might, and probably will.
I’d put money on Reid and McConnell already, as we speak, writing a bill that reconciles the Reid proposal with Boehner’s. Depending on timing, that may be the one Reid brings to the floor, or it may be the last ditch try after the House rejects Reid’s original proposal. There may be enough Republicans in the House (all it takes is about two dozen) to pass that one.
BUT IF NOT — That sets up the need for either a clean one-sentence bill, or for the President to go Fourteenth on their ass.
But all this was predicated on Boehner’s bill coming to a vote. If Boehner refuses to let his bill be defeated in the House, the game changes some.
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Some conservatives (clinging to hope) are saying this is “strategery” on Boehner’s part… he just wants to delay his vote long enough that Harry Reid will be forced to hold the Senate vote tomorrow, instead of sneaking it through late tonight under cover of darkness.
I can’t really see what advantage the R’s would gain from that… but then I often have a difficult time grasping the finer points of Republican strategy.
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Boehner may be hoping that Reid calls for a vote on the Senate bill before the House votes on Boehner Bill, so he can make his bill the final one.
We will be seeing Treasury over the next few days start telling us EXACTLY what it will mean if the debt limit is not raised — which bills will be paid in August, and which won’t, in what order, and on what days. This is going to be frightening stuff, and the pressure it will put on Republicans will be immense.
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Holy crap, this is scary. It’s like being on a transatlantic light and somebody comes on the Intercom and says, “We just wish to inform you the pilot has suffered a heart attack, and the co-pilot is chanting nursery rhymes and cutting out paper dolls. Feel free to get up and move about the cabin.”
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filistro
I can’t really see what advantage the R’s would gain from that…
The idea is, whichever bill is last will have more pressure to be enacted. It will look like the final chance to avoid Armegeddon. The spin will be, “If you don’t enact THIS ONE, then it’s YOUR FAULT if America dies.”
Of course, that carries an implicit admission that NOT raising the debt ceiling is a Bad Thing, contrary to what most of the Republicans have been bleating for the last three months. It is a tacit admission that they’ve been lying to us all along.
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Breaking news.
A compromise proposal may be in the works.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/60177.html
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King Freep Rallies the troops:
Urgent message to the Tea Party Freshmen and fiscal conservatives!
July 28, 2011 | Jim RobinsonPosted on July-28–11 5:06:09 PM by Jim Robinson
HOLD THE LINE!!
They’ll have to come back to you. DEMAND a REAL CUT in spending!! Do not under any circumstance approve a debt ceiling increase!! Instead, insist on real spending cuts NOW!! The country is bankrupt. Do not allow them to take us deeper into debt! It’s time for the HOUSE to do it’s job of controlling the spending!
The federal government is bankrupt due to Obama’s reckless spending. Cut up his credit cards and force him to quit spending! It’s time to put Obama and company into receivership! Make them come to the House to authorize current payments on the debts as they come due so that we don’t default. Do not authorize any spending whatsoever on discretionary items until the spending crisis is solved. Pay the obligated social security checks, the military, the interest and the required debt payments, but that’s just about it until our fiscal house is in order!
Make no bones about it. We sent you to Washington for one reason and one reason only and that is to take control of our big spending, big taxing problems, and get our economy going again so our our people can get back to work!! Do not let the DC ruling class sway you. Do not take your eye off the ball. Do not fail to do your job! Our nation’s survival depends upon your vote!!
Tell Boehner to get HIS ass in line!! Cut the damned spending, already!!
Reinforcements are coming in 2012!!
Rebellion is brewing!!
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#18 written by shortchain 1 year ago
The first polling has come back detailing the public perceptions of the two-week Minnesota state government shutdown. The result: twice as many (42 percent) think the GOP was mostly responsible. (21 percent think the governor was mostly responsible and about 22 percent thought both were to blame.)
If this perception holds until the next election, it may result in some differences in the next legislature…
This may prove of interest to the House GOP which started this whole fiasco with dramatically lower ratings than the President.
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Latest update from Andrew Stiles whip count:
UPDATE IV: Things appear to be getting desparate. Reps. Joe Walsh (R., S.C.) and Louis Gohmert have just met with Speaker Boehner and are still no’s. Gohmert says he is a “bloody, beaten down no.”
Rep. Charlie Dent (R., Pa.), a yes, says he’s spoken to leadership. They are short on votes but “very close.”
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Chuck Todd… (paraphrase)… “if Boehner can’t pass, Dems gain the upper hand and McConnell will move swiftly to work something out with Reid. This was a (possibly accidental, possibly deliberate) brilliant move by the Dems. When they announced the Boehner plan would be instantly killed in the Senate, the Tea Party freshmen withdrew their support, thinking why should I put my neck on the line for a bill that will be killed anyway?
Bottom line… R’s in terrible danger. If this dies in the House tonight, resolution will be quicker because McConnell will take over and he WILL compromise. He’ll do what needs to be done.. IMMEDIATELY.. to save his party.…”
Is your head spinning yet?
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latest UPDATE from NRO (these are for shortchain, who refuses to click those links
)‘Last-Minute Touchdown’
July 28, 2011 7:13 P.M.
By Robert CostaA senior Republican member tells me that Boehner is nearing 216. Still, he says, the “no” votes are rallying together and shaking up the final whip count: “They think they have the momentum.”
Once one “no” vote announces, he says, the media attention and cheers from fellow conservatives becomes a huge factor — and influence others to join the camp. “Saying no, at [this] hour, is like scoring a last-minute touchdown,” he says. “They are loving the spoiler role, from what I can tell. It’s a big problem for Boehner — not devastating, but big.”
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filistro,
This turn of events also could be a precursor to open war within the Republican Party. If the Teawing tastes Republican blood, having prevented Boehner’s bill from even coming to a vote, they’ll be emboldened further. If a Reid-McConnell compromise then actually passes the Senate and the House, the Teapers will be so angry they may simply stop cooperating on anything. They may begin demanding Boehner’s removal as speaker. Teapers will definitely primary every Republican who votes with Reid-McConnell, They will lay down real money to defeat Romney. It could get pretty ugly, really fast.
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#24 written by shortchain 1 year ago
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#25 written by shortchain 1 year ago
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#27 written by Max aka Birdpilot 1 year ago
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@shortchain What I’d really like to know is what is being promised to the last-minute “yes” votes.
No matter what’s promised, it’s not enough. As Josh Marshall points out, the whip count is now online everywhere, being avidly circulated by the Tea Party. Any “no” votes that switch to “yes” will lose their jobs next year.
What could Boehner promise to offset that? A table nearer the window in the congressional dining room?
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#29 written by rgbact 1 year ago
After all this mess.….why are we choosing to wrap up so much of our economy in the hands of a few people in DC. This proves that the US govt has become “too big to fail” and we are all its hostages. Don’t ever think about cutting it.…cuz the beast is huge…and if the beast has a stroke.…it brings the entire economy down with it. Democracy is a nice concept for governing.…but its a bitch for actually accomplishing anything.
Its time to spin the entitlement programs completely off from the regular government We need to start chopping this thing up. This is too much centralized risk/power right now.
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Max,
If the Teabaggers won’t pass Boner’s bill, what makes you think they’ll pass ANYTHING coming out of the Senate?
Certainly the Teapers won’t vote for anything out of the Senate. But it is possible there are 25 or so non-Teaper Republicans who don’t want to see America die. They might vote for a Reid-McConnell compromise, and that’s all it would take.
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#33 written by fopplssiegeparty 1 year ago
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#35 written by Max aka Birdpilot 1 year ago
Burning Down the House
All y’all may not know, but that was also the title to a Northern Exposure episode, where, during a visit by Maggie’s mother, she (Maggie’s mom) DID burn down Maggie’s house.
In the ruins of the house, Chris Stevens discovered Maggie’s piano survived.
This was also the episode where Chris built the trebuchet to fling the cow, until Ed reminded him Monty Python had already done so in The Holy Grail. Thus Chris decided to fling the piano.
Just prior to the fling Chris gave these words of wisdom:
“I’ve been here now for some days, groping my way along, trying to realize my vision here. I started concentrating so hard on my vision that I lost sight. I’ve come to find out that it’s not the vision, it’s not the vision at all. It’s the groping. It’s the groping, it’s the yearning, it’s the moving forward. I was so fixated on that flying cow that when Ed told me Monty Python already painted that picture, I thought I was through. I had to let go of that cow so I could see all the other possibilities. Anyway, I want to thank Maurice for helping me to let go of that cow. Thank you Maurice for playing Apollo to my Dionysus in art’s Cartesian dialectic. And thanks to you, Ed, cause the truth shall set us free! And Maggie, thank you for sharing in the destruction of your house so that today we could have something to fling. I think Kierkegaard said it oh so well, ‘The self is only that which it’s in the process of becoming.’ Art? Same thing. James Joyce had something to say about it too. ‘Welcome, Oh Life! I go to encounter for the millionth time the reality of experience, and to forge in the smythe of my soul the uncreated conscious of my race.’ We’re here today to fling something that bubbled up from the collective unconsciousness of our community. Ed, you about ready? The thing I learned folks, this is absolutely key: It’s not the thing you fling. It’s the fling itself. ”
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For those of you keeping track of the whip count at home:
Add One To Boehner’s Column
Rep. Michael Burgess (R-TX), who has been considered either undecided or a no vote for Speaker Boehner’s debt plan, tells reporters he’s now a yes vote.
Does Boehner have the votes now? “Apparently not, or we’d be upstairs voting,” Burgess said.
As for Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ), he told reporters, “I haven’t changed my mind about anything … I’m looking for a restroom, you gonna follow me in?” Franks is considered a “No” vote.
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One thing I think will come out of tonight.
For good or ill, whether you approve or not, regardless of your political leanings, no one can pretend any more it wasn’t the Teawing of the Republican Party who stood in the way of an agreement.
Oh, sure, there will be people pretending to try to spin it some other way. But the rest of the planet will be laughing at them.
That is, if we haven’t all slit our wrists out of despair over the planetwide destruction the Republican Teawing has caused.
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If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;
~~~~~apologies to Rudyard Kipling …
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CNN’s Jonathan Karl describes the endgame, with less than a minute left on the clock:
Assuming the Boehner bill passes, the Senate will move tonight to reject it (or, in Senate-speak to “table” it). IMPORTANT: Tabling a bill is not the same as killing it. It can be brought up again at a later time.
At that point, the Senate will take up the Reid bill (supported by the President, it raises the debt ceiling by $2.7T, until 2013). He’ll offer Republicans one last chance – a window of just a matter of hours – to negotiate slight changes.
But Republicans say the Reid bill cannot get the 60 need to pass. They are counting on it failing, forcing the Democrats – under the threat of default and facing market turmoil – to once again take up the Boehner bill and pass it as the only way to avoid economic chaos.
As Republicans see it: The Boehner bill will be the last train leaving the station. The Senate must pass it or default.
But …
Democrats plan to put the Republicans right against the wall using the very same tactic. They will do this by holding the vote on the Reid bill on Sunday or Monday – at which point it will be too late to go back to the Boehner bill or do anything else.
“At that point,” says one key Democrat, “they will be forced to make a choice: vote for the Reid bill or vote for default.”
BOTTOM LINE: Both sides are now prepared to use the threat of economic turmoil – a possible global downturn – to force the other side to go along with their plan. And both sides say they are absolutely confident the other side will give in.
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Lawrence O’Donnell made a great point this evening.
If the Republicans were serious about reducing the deficit, there is a simple way to do it. Allow the Bush tax cuts to expire at the end of 2012. That would produce at least $4 trillion in deficit reduction in ten years, which is as large as any of the proposals we’ve seen in the last couple of weeks, and far larger than most.
All the Republicans would have to do is do nothing.
But this isn’t about deficit reduction. It’s about imposing a right wing social agenda through terrorist extortion.
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#45 written by rgbact 1 year ago
I wonder if my friend rgb is quite so ready to tease me now for “constantly predicting a crack-up in the GOP that just isn’t going to happen…”
Meh, its called sausage-making. Enjoy the reality TV. Wake me when its over. I don’t care either way. Shut ‘er down if need be. All that matters is the GOP has proven they are the fiscally sane party and the Dems have proven they have no ideas and Obama can’t lead. So, I’m happy no matter what-inspite of a little infighting.
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#51 written by Max aka Birdpilot 1 year ago
And I’m not nearly as “nice” as fili.
“Shut ‘er down if need be. All that matters is the GOP has proven they are the fiscally sane party”
rgb,
That is as silly and asinine a statement as you have made here.
The first sentence demonstrates your lack of common sense, your lack of economic intelligence, your ideological blindness and your lack of any claim to a clue of what’s best for America and her people, and investors, both domestic and foreign.
The second demonstrates that you are either gullible to the sound bites of the party with which you identify when the facts are 180 degrees the opposite or simply a liar of insane proportion. (Apologies to Little Big Man)
I’d list the facts of the last 30 years that empirically prove you to be 180 degrees off, but that has been done many times previously, you’ve read them (you are not stupid, I know), and you choose to ignore them intentionally because they don’t fit your ideological wet dream.
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Do you know how it feels when you go into a theater to see a scary movie you’ve been hearing about, and you’re not really sure if it’s going to live up to the hype? Have you ever had the experience of discovering such a movie was actually far worse than you imagined — so horrifying you doubted you could live through to the end? Now put yourself into the theater, and think about what it would be like to unexpectedly find yourself inside that movie, and all the theater patrons around you, there in the dark, while you’ve been watching, had become flesh-eating zombies… and you know, beyond doubt, the world outside the theater doors has already been overrun…
After the market closes tomorrow, the Treasury Department will reveal who is getting paid and who isn’t if the debt limit is not raised.
I guarantee, it is going to frighten people. I do not believe most Americans are aware of what an incredible disaster this will be. I’m looking at some of the figures (there are places on the Intertubes where this is easily available) and it is staggering.
If some foreign government were to threaten this level of damage — if some bomb-wielding extremist were to do this much — if terrorists or hackers screwed up our nation this badly — those Tea Party “patriots” would be screaming for the death penalty.
To allow America to default, to refuse to raise the debt ceiling at this hour, is an act of blind terrorist violence. If this much damage were to be done through any other means, it would be seen as the most enormous act of treason in American history, even if the perpetrator wore a tricorne hat with teabags hanging from it.
There are few moments that are larger than nearly any hyperbole. This is one of them. The zombies are just outside your window.
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#53 written by Jean 1 year ago
The latest from thehill.com
LAST UPDATED ON JULY 28 AT 9:27 p.m.
House Republicans against/leaning no on Boehner plan (25):
Todd Akin (Mo.) — Senate hopeful is a no
Justin Amash (Mich.) — Not shy about breaking from GOP leaders
Michele Bachmann (Minn.) — Said on July 28: “I will not be casting my vote for that bill. I cannot. I am committed to not raising the debt ceiling.” She voted against CCB*
Paul Broun (Ga.) — Against raising debt ceiling; voted against CCB*
Jason Chaffetz (Utah) — Possible Senate candidate told The Hill July 28 he is a no
Jeff Duncan (S.C.) — Told thestate.com, a South Caroline media outlet, that he is a no
Jeff Flake (Ariz.) — Senate hopeful has said he is leaning no, but declined to comment Thursday night. His vote could be key to passage
Scott Garrett (N.J.) — He told The Hill on July 28 he is leaning no
Phil Gingrey (Ga.) — A definite no
Louie Gohmert (Texas) — Planning to vote no
Trey Gowdy (S.C.) — Leaning no
Tom Graves (Ga.) — Firm no
Andy Harris (Md.) — Strong proponent of BBA**; Indicated to Baltimore Sun he is a no
Tim Huelskamp (Kan.) — Firm no
Jim Jordan (Ohio) — RSC chairman is strongly opposed
Steve King (Iowa) — Firm no
Raúl Labrador (Idaho) — Office said on July 28 he is leaning no
Connie Mack (Fla.) — Voted against CCB*; firm no
Mick Mulvaney (S.C.) — A no vote
Ron Paul (Texas) — Against raising debt ceiling; voted against CCB*
Dennis Ross (Fla.) — Still a no after emerging from Speaker’s office on Thursday night
Tim Scott (S.C.) — Told Fox’s Neil Cavuto on July 28 he is a no
Steve Southerland (Fla.) — Lawmaker told AP he is a no
Joe Walsh (Ill.) — Said on MSNBC he is a no
Joe Wilson (S.C.) — Like others in S.C. delegation, Wilson is a noHouse Republicans leaning yes (7):
Roscoe Bartlett (Md.) — Had been undecided earlier on July 28
Marsha Blackburn (Tenn.)
Blake Farenthold (Texas)
Doug Lamborn (Colo.)
Cynthia Lummis (Wyo.) — Went from undecided to leaning yes
Bobby Schilling (Ill.)
Rob Woodall (Ga.) — Went from undecided to leaning yesHouse Republicans planning to vote yes (62):
Rob Bishop (Utah)
Diane Black (Tenn.)
Jo Bonner (Ala.)
Charles Boustany Jr. (La.)
Ann Marie Buerkle (N.Y.)
Kevin Brady (Texas)
Michael Burgess (Texas) — Said he’ll vote yes after leaving Speaker’s office Thursday night
Dave Camp (Mich.)
John Campbell (Calif.) — A yes, which is a huge get for GOP leaders
Steve Chabot (Ohio)
Tom Cole (Okla.)
Rick Crawford (Ark.)
Jeff Denham (Calif.)
Robert Dold (Ill.)
Sean Duffy (Wis.)
Renee Ellmers (N.C.)
Stephen Fincher (Tenn.) — His office confirmed on July 28 he will vote yes
Chuck Fleischmann (Tenn.) — A couple of media outlets had him as a no, but he is a yes
Bill Flores (Texas)
Randy Forbes (Va.)
Cory Gardner (Colo.)
Bob Gibbs (Ohio)
Bob Goodlatte (Va.)
Paul Gosar (Ariz.) — Was leaning no; now a yes
Frank Guinta (N.H.) — Told ABC News’s “Top Line” program he is a yes
Tim Griffin (Ark.)
Michael Grimm (N.Y.)
Nan Hayworth (N.Y.)
Duncan Hunter (Calif.)
Bill Huizenga (Mich.) — Announced on the evening of July 28 that he is a yes
John Kline (Minn.) — Supports bill, according to Minnesota Public Radio
Darrell Issa (Calif.)
Walter Jones (N.C.) — A key pickup for leaders
Mike Kelly (Pa.) — Key yes vote for leadership officials
Adam Kinzinger (Ill.)
James Lankford (Okla.)
Steven LaTourette (Ohio) — Predicts GOP will get the votes
Billy Long (Mo.) — Long is now a yes, according to Politico
Dan Lungren (Calif.)
Thaddeus McCotter (Mich) — Only White House hopeful in Congress who will vote yes on Friday
Kristi Noem (S.D.)
Rich Nugent (Fla.)
Alan Nunnelee (Miss.)
Steven Palazzo (Miss.)
Mike Pence (Ind.)
Mike Pompeo (Kan.) — Said on the House floor he is a yes
Tom Reed (N.Y.)
Jim Renacci (Ohio)
Reid Ribble (Wis.)
Scott Rigell (Va.)
Martha Roby (Ala.)
Dana Rohrabacher (Calif.) — Voted against CCB*
Jon Runyan (N.J.)
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (Fla.)
Paul Ryan (Wis.) — Predicts that bill will pass the House
Austin Scott (Ga.)
Marlin Stutzman (Ind.) — Announced on House floor July 28 that he is a yes
Scott Tipton (Colo.)
Allen West (Fla.)
Steve Womack (Ark.)
Lynn Westmoreland (Ga.)
Todd Young (Ind.)Undecided/Still reviewing/Unclear (33)
Joe Barton (Texas)
Dan Benishek (Mich.)
Mo Brooks (Ala.) — The Speaker made the case to Brooks personally, Politico reported. Brooks spoke on the House floor on July 28, but his position is still unclear
Dan Burton (Ind.)
Francisco “Quico” Canseco (Texas) — Voted against CCB*; The Texas Tribune reported he is a no, but his press secretary on the evening of July 28 said that is incorrect. Canseco is undecided, according to press secretary Valentina Weis. She added the paper was citing an outdated statement from Canseco.
Chip Cravaack (Minn.) — He is on the fence, according to Minnesota Public Radio
Scott DesJarlais (Tenn.) — On Thursday night (July 28), he repeatedly told reporters, “No comment.” Voted against CCB*
John Duncan Jr. (Tenn.)
Trent Franks (Ariz.) — His office said on July 28 he is undecided. He wouldn’t tell reporters how he’d vote the night of July 28.
Morgan Griffith (Va.) — Voted against CCB*
Jamie Herrera Beutler (Wash.) — Has been spotted talking to several GOP leaders; unclear how she will vote
Randy Hultgren (Ill.) — His office on July 28 said he is “still studying” bill
Timothy Johnson (Ill.) — His office on July 28 said, “No comment“
Jack Kingston (Ga.)
Doug Lamborn (Colo.)
Jeff Landry (La.)
Tom Latham (Iowa) — Boehner confidante, who faces tough reëlection, torn on vote; he signed CCB* pledge earlier this month
Don Manzullo (Ill.)
Tom McClintock (Calif.)
Tom Marino (Pa.) — His office said on July 28 that Marino is undecided
Jeff Miller (Fla.)
Devin Nunes (Calif.) — Noncommittal during Fox interview Monday
Erik Paulsen (Minn.) — Undecided, according to Minnesota Public Radio
Ted Poe (Texas)
Ben Quayle (Ariz.)
Denny Rehberg (Mont.) — Running for the Senate
Tom Rooney (Fla.)
Jean Schmidt (Ohio) — Her office on July 28 told The Hill she is undecided
David Schweikert (Ariz.)
Michael Turner (Ohio) — His office on July 28 said he is undecided
Tim Walberg (Mich.) — His office on July 28 told The Hill he is undecided
Kevin Yoder (Kan.)
Don Young (Alaska)* CCB — “cut, cap and balance” bill that passed House last week
**BBA — balanced-budget amendment
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Thanks Jean… that’s still 25 “no” votes. They need to switch one of those guys AND hold all of the “yes” votes.
From TPM, minutes ago:
There are rumblings, unconfirmed, that Boehner may have to make some tweaks to his bill to win over a few more votes and get it passed. But that would probably delay a final vote until tomorrow at the earliest.
One interesting dynamic here is that this Republican House has foresworn earmarks, the type of baubles that come in very handy when it’s time for horse-trading. That makes the art of persuasion more difficult for Boehner.
The irony really bites, doesn’t it?
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#55 written by Jean 1 year ago
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One thought that gives me hope, in a perverse way.
If the debt ceiling is not raised, the damage will be immense. In a single month, more economic damage will be caused (both immediate and long-term), more lives will be lost (through lack of medical funding), and more disruption of the national infrastructure will happen, than resulted from the attacks of Sept 11 (I’m not exaggerating here). Sane Congresspeople — even most Republicans — know this. Even after only a day or two, the potential extent of the horror will be apparent to even the most uninformed. And the Republicans (specifically the Teawing) will get the blame. Republicans know this, too. There is no upside for them.
On the other hand, if they allow a debt limit increase to pass, even just a simple clean one-line bill — especially a simple, clean, one-line bill — they can continue to demagogue the whole thing, continue to pretend the warnings were overblown, and possibly even use this extortion technique again some time in the future.
If they let it happen, then, like exploding the A-bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the world will recoil in such horror that anyone would rightly believe those who threaten such an act again are dangerous madmen. The Republicans would lose this as a credible tool in their propaganda arsenal.
They know that, too.
This gives me hope.
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On earmarks –
The House also promised it would hold public hearings on every bill. It has so far held none on any of the debt limit bills.
They also promised they would publish all bills at least three days before voting on them. They haven’t done that, either.
They additionally assured us they would stop appending unrelated matters to must-pass legislation. Don’t even start.
They said they’d begin every bill with the Constitutional provisions that allows them to pass that bill. I suppose they might have found something they could use for this one to explain why they are violating the Fourteenth Amendment.
Given all that, why are they worried about earmarks?
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#60 written by Jean 1 year ago
Now this is rich. Apparently the Tea Party is against an educated America’s work force. Seems to be a ery anti-business stance American businesses say they need an educated work-force.
“House conservatives who have stalled legislation to raise the national debt limit are angry that it includes $17 billion in supplemental spending for Pell Grants, which some compare to welfare.
Legislation crafted by House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) to raise the debt limit by $900 billion would directly appropriate $9 billion for Pell Grants in 2012 and another $8 billion in 2013.
This has shocked some conservative House freshmen who say they were elected to cut spending, not increase it. Some House Republicans think of it as being akin to welfare.”
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DC… here’s something interesting I just heard a commentator say, that I hadn’t really thought of before… but I think it’s relevant.
This situation turns politics on its head because these Tea Party people are anti-debt fanatics. They are True Believers. They think this is what they were sent to Washington to do, and they are prepared to die on this hill.
They don’t care about the will of the people. They don’t care if they get re-elected. They are suicide bombers. How do you reason with a suicide bomber… by telling him this might hurt quite a bit? He won’t make it to his next birthday party? It’s going to make a big mess on the floor?
THEY DON’T CARE. That’s what makes them so dangerous. People who don’t give a damn are the most dangerous of all.
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#64 written by Mainer 1 year ago
No problem then Fili one just finds a way for them to commit sucide. They keep this shit up and they may even get a little help. I need to see where some of these aholes misrepresent. I’m betting that at least some of them are from districts with military bases or large numbers of military retired.….…I think they should go home for the week end and wander over to the American Legion or VFW or maybe the one of the base clubs and anounce that they have held the line and fought the good fight and those present will not be getting paid next pay period, or will be looking at a postponment for that cancer or heart surgery and are not those present proud as punch for them? Might lower the number of votes needed to sort this sorid mess out.
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#67 written by Mainer 1 year ago
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filistro,
Yes, the Teapers are really that fanatic. I don’t hold out any hope for any of them.
I do believe also they are holding much of their own Republican caucus hostage. The drama is going to see whether, at the last minute, any of the victims they’re holding in the room find enough balls to lead a revolt against their captors. Or at least make a break for the door.
It takes courage to rush at the madman holding the weapon, knowing that even if you survive, they’ll come after you later. But it isn’t only their own lives on the line. I wonder if enough of them care about anything larger than themselves — or can see father than Tuesday.
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#70 written by Mainer 1 year ago
Fili.…been bouncing all over the net this night and I think they may be short several more than one vote. You all realize none of this matters any more for the damage has already been done. You think the government is the only ones that are going to wait until after hours tomorrow to anounce who gets skinned? I’m guessing the same thing happens with the bond agencies. Gives those working there a few more hours to pull their investments, convert tehm to cash or Beck’s gold and stash them off shore. I also figure more than one Rep is doing the same.
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CNN keeps saying the White House wants Boehner to remain strong. They may say that, but if they really wanted this bill to pass so they could play out their Kabuki Theatre puppet show, then they could find two or three retiring Democrats to vote with Boehner and give him the bill he needs, so they could shoot it down in the Senate. Think of what Boehner would owe them.
I think they’re enjoying watching this schism developing in the Republican Wall of No.
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filistro,
House Majority Whip… no vote tonight.
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John King… GOP contacts won’t tell him how many votes they are shy… but it’s “more than one.”Call me nuts, but I don’t see how Boehner survives this humiliation. Cantor may go down with him, since Cantor’s been trying to whip up votes as well.
And I agree with you, the Reid-McConnell bill has to be unveiled soon (even if they have to name it McConnell-Reid). Though I suspect they’ll wait until the last possible moment the Senate rules allow, to prevent the House from defeating it and then passing the Boehner disaster. Senate rules are so cumbersome, by Saturday there won’t be time for them to vote on more than one bill (unless they pull something like the “nuclear option” that was threatened in the 90’s to set aside the Senate rules).
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#73 written by Rose 1 year ago
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It’s just like a really close football game… get ahead by a field goal (or a single point) in the dying minutes and then play a safe ground game to run out the clock and make sure you wind up with the last possession.
Don’t fumble the ball, and don’t throw an interception.
The death of the Boehner bill seems to makes it a lot more likely that Reid winds up with that crucial final possession.
On the other hand, Mainer could be right. The DOW has been hovering just into positive territory all evening, but when McCarthy announced the probable death of the bill it suddenly dropped like a stone.. 94 points… and is still going down.
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#75 written by Mainer 1 year ago
Fili, DC and any of the others that think Munch McConnell is going to come into this as one of the adults at the last minute have not been paying attention for the past 2+ years. The man does not give a rats ass for the wealfare of this country. Hell he is probably one of the ones shorting treasurys. Ole Harry will try to work wih him yet again and he will get stuck by the no neck jerk yet again. Lucy, Charlie Brown, football.…..think children I know you can do it.
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#76 written by Jean 1 year ago
According to thehill.com
“House Republican leaders have postponed indefinitely a vote on Speaker John Boehner’s (R-Ohio) debt limit bill after they could not persuade enough Republicans to support the measure.”
“Indefinitely” apparently means that they have not scheduled another vote.
I would almost feel sorry for John Boehner — he is obviously being held hostage by the Tea Party. What prevents me from feeling sorry for Boehner is the fact that he would be holding Americans hostage, had he not found himself in the uncomfortable position of being held hostage himself.
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Default Worries Dry Up Lending
BY LIZ RAPPAPORT AND MATT PHILLIPS
Rising signs of strain emerged across financial markets on Thursday as investors pulled out billions of cash out of money-market funds, in turn driving the funds to rein in lending in short-term markets.
Financial markets have become increasingly alarmed at the deepening divide in Washington and the potential that the U.S. could be downgraded by credit-rating agencies or, worse, default on its debt.
Banks, meanwhile, are scrambling to design emergency plans to avoid a trading logjam in the huge markets for Treasurys and short-term funding facilities if Congress fails to raise the U.S. borrowing limits by next Tuesday’s deadline.
…
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#79 written by Jean 1 year ago
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#81 written by Max aka Birdpilot 1 year ago
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then the Apocalypse has come.
I don’t think so. I think after a couple more days of this, those Tea Party freshmen will be the most hated people in America, right up there with Casey Anthony.
And people will be having mass sit-ins in front of the White House and across the nation, imploring Obama to do what he wanted to do right from the beginning… pass a clean one-page bill to raise the debt ceiling.
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#83 written by Jean 1 year ago
From redstate: Highly recommended. Money quote:
“And finally, let’s discuss the House Republicans who are standing on the brink of sending to the Senate — who will pass it — and the president — who will sign it — a piece of legislation that is consistent with their principles, if not perfect. Instead of simply voting yes, they have formed a variety of unproductive coalitions: the Coalition of the Willfully Ignorant (who claim you don’t need a debt-ceiling increase or that markets won’t care and their will be no fallout) and the Coalition of It’s Someone Else’s Problem (because I just want to have an issue and campaign). Result: They suffer a political loss and America loses.
Wow. Wow, indeed. Fortunately, more and more people are understanding this.”
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#84 written by Jean 1 year ago
And another from redstate. And this type of comment in the past has been very rare at redstate. They’ll ban you in a minute if you disagree with the redstate “official” position. Generally they alway defer to Erick Erickson. Not so much any more.
“The odds of winning in 2012 just got a lot worse. The chaos in the Republican Party is doing significant damage. Basically, they have just affirmed the Democrat narrative of a Republicans as extremists who want to push granny off the cliff.
This should not be a happy night for anyone hoping for Republican gains in 2012.”
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#85 written by Max aka Birdpilot 1 year ago
Of course, after being screwed and embarrassed by a subset of his own party, Boner COULD swing a deal with Pelosi and the Dems, showing he is the Speaker of the WHOLE House and is actually interested in GOVERNING. He could pass a clean bill favorable to the Dems in both Houses in exchange for keeping his Speakership through the next election.
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#86 written by rgbact 1 year ago
Obama needs to flat out say he will veto anything except a 1-page, up the number raise the ceiling bill with at least $2 trillion ante. The Congress can then argue over spending and revenue next week.
Great idea. And then the House can send him only a 6 month extension.….and take him up on his veto threat. Then he can explain the govt shutdown that results.
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#87 written by Brian 1 year ago
I don’t understand why none of the Congressmen, Democrat or moderate Republican, don’t put this in terms as simply as MW has. “We need bypass surgery tonight and cut calories afterwards.” Or point out that the debt ceiling was raised (14?) times when Reagan was president. Or keep attacking the point that xxx CEOs want the debt ceiling raised. I wanna say 450, but I’m a tad drunk.
I fear what the stock market will look like Monday at closing if there isn’t a deal in place by then. Hell, I’m afraid of what it will look like tomorrow.
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rgbact
Great idea. And then the House can send him only a 6 month extension.….and take him up on his veto threat. Then he can explain the govt shutdown that results.
You are correct, that the House would continue to act irresponsibly and in contradiction to America’s best interest. They’ve done nothing really sane since January. I wouldn’t expect them to start now.
The President’s move then would be to order Treasury to pay America’s bills, and to dare the terrorists in the House to sue him.
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#90 written by CaptainPlatypus 1 year ago
dcpetterson:
The President’s move then would be to order Treasury to pay America’s bills, and to dare the terrorists in the House to sue him.This is looking more and more like the most viable option to me — the only real question is whether McConnell will manage to get any concessions at all out of the Senate in exchange for passing the Reid bill (which is, in case anyone’s forgotten, a pretty sweet deal for any sort of even remotely reasonable conservative) instead of using the 14th amendment escape hatch.
I really don’t see any way the Republicans can win that argument, assuming that the court case isn’t resolved by next November. They can yell about Obama abusing his power all they wanted — but they’d have proved in front of the entire nation that everything Obama’s been saying for months about being the adult in the room is true, by literally blocking every other option to avoid economic catastrophe.
If I were McConnell, I’d be crawling on my hands and knees to avoid that PR disaster — and it would be a disaster, not to the Republican base, who would rise up in arms, but to every moderate (and a significant number of conservatives, from the look of it) in America, not to mention mobilizing the liberal base like nothing else.
If I were Obama, on the other hand, I’d be strongly tempted to kick him in the face. Then again, I wouldn’t be known as a mature, responsible, moderate president, either.
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#91 written by Armchair Warlord 1 year ago
Regarding the fourteenth,
I think the reason President Obama has been so insistent regarding not using it is because, unlike seemingly everyone else in Washington, he’s looking beyond Tuesday. I think he’ll use it as an absolute last resort to avoid a financial catastrophe, but his using it will unite the Republicans against him like never before and give them one hell of a talking point come the elections. Obama the Tyrant, just the sound bite they need. And we’ll be recapitulating this entire thing three months from now when the Republican House passes a $1 federal budget and refuses to budge on it anyways.
As thing stand he has a pretty good chance of fatally wounding the GOP for 2012 and probably for a long time to come. Boehner’s plan is DOA even if he gets the votes for it. Reid’s plan will pass the Senate, the 25 sanest Republicans in the House will step off the crazy train and vote for it, the Tea Party reps will riot Taiwan-style and it’ll all be over but the crying. Republican control of the House will be effectively over and the business of government will be able to resume with the help of the Gang of 25.
And then the Democrats will get 538 electoral votes and a more-than-theoretically filibuster-proof majority in Congress if the right third of the Republican Party turns on the left two-thirds in an all-out whitebread conservative apocalypse showdown next year.
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Captain and Warlord, you both have great-sounding scenarios. I hope one of you is right.
Warlord, you hinted at something that should give us all nightmares. After Tuesday, sometime later this year, the battle will begin for the FY2012 budget. Does anyone imagine it will be more sane that this disaster is turning out to be? The only way anything reasonable can happen is if the Tea Party does manage to tear the Republicans apart, and the moderates reassert some sense.
But they won’t, because their ONLY goal is to defeat President Obama. So we will have another 15 months of this kind of knuckle-biting nonsense,
And meanwhile, Republicans are ignoring the one issue that Americans care about about, the whole reason they were given a majority in the House, and this Russian roulette they’re playing was designed to distract us from this vital bit:
MR. BOEHNER, WHERE ARE THE JOBS?
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#93 written by Max aka Birdpilot 1 year ago
0706 CDT … Scarborough just offered up my suggestion in #35 above!
rgb,
Great idea. And then the House can send him only a 6 month extension.….and take him up on his veto threat. Then he can explain the govt shutdown that results.
a) After your comment last night, you reduced yourself to the same level as the economic terrorists sitting in the Tea Party circlejerk and diminished your credibility as a result, IMHO. They, and you, have no concept of governing. All y’all can do is try to dictate, the root of dictator. The equivalent of strapping a bomb to your chests, standing in the middle of the NYSE and Congress and screaming “Do it our way or I’m gonna blow us all up!”
b) Say the scenario DID unfold as you just said. With the mood of the majority of the country now, the LAST thing YOU want is for Obama to have the platform speaking about “Why.”. But you, sitting enthralled in your ideological circlejerk, eyes closed and smiling, are too ignorant to see that. A shame.
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#94 written by parksie555 1 year ago
So Maxie, politicians that feel it is prudent to keep taxes at current levels and reduce spending to meet those levels are “economic terrorists”? Is that from the same dictionary that redefines taxes as “revenues”?
At risk in the 2012 cycle for the Dems: White House + 20 Senate Seats + House
For the Pubbies: 10 Senate Seats + HouseSo if the economy goes even further into the crapper than it already is — both sides lose but the Dems lose more.
To me it is clear that Obama and Reid recognize this fact — that is why they have been so willing to compromise to this point on “revenues”.
I would agree that the Tea Party faction is at some risk of overplaying their hand in the House at this point — but they know Dems have more to lose and therefore are pushing their position as hard as they can.
It’s called negotiation — it happens in the real world all the time. So far to this point in his presidency Obama has repeatedly shown he is a better speech-maker and politician than he is negotiator. Not surprising as a lawyer who never spent a day in the private sector other than a few years as a civil rights litigator.
All in all should be a very interesting day in our fair capital… Quite a test for Boehner today, I hope he is up to the task.
But my guess is the can will get kicked down the road again. The Reid/McConnell bill will contain a series of absolutely meaningless nonbinding spending cuts with an endless series of caveats.
The professional politicians down the middle on both sides who are scared to death of having to make a living in the real world will pass it and the next real dustup will be over the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. Or should I call them revenue cuts as I am in the lefty echo chamber at the moment?
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#95 written by Max aka Birdpilot 1 year ago
parksie,
So Maxie, politicians that feel it is prudent to keep taxes at current levels and reduce spending to meet those levels are “economic terrorists”?
No, neither are activists that use reasonable means to make social changes versus people as Breivik. But politicians that use the tactics of the current crop of Teabaggers in Congress ARE! And, since you obviously haven’t been paying a lot of attention, this is NOT just a Dem/GOP, right/left battle. CEO’s of the three major banks, CEO’s of major corporations, including Walmart, have weighed in against the Teabagger terrorists agreeing to get the deal done and revenue increases should be a part of that. Add in the market: down 4% the past week. (Tell you what: Why don’t you offer up the money I’ve lost across my investments the past week, seeing you seem to be supporting the Teabagger terrorists against Wall Street?)
So if the economy goes even further into the crapper than it already is — both sides lose but the Dems lose more.
To me it is clear that Obama and Reid recognize this fact — that is why they have been so willing to compromise to this point on “revenues”..YOUR opinion, since you haven’t had a conversation with either man and don’t know, and you are welcome to it.
You do leave out the possibility that they recognize that the spending curve needs to be turned downward and thus are willing to offer a HELL of a lot more cuts than Congressional GOPers.
I would agree that the Tea Party faction is at some risk of overplaying their hand in the House at this point — but they know Dems have more to lose and therefore are pushing their position as hard as they can.
First half is a gross understatement that only someone sitting in the aforementioned circlejerk, eyes closed and smiling, could make with a straight face.
Second half is a scenario that is fading by the hour.
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#96 written by rgbact 1 year ago
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It is true that there are more Democrats up for reëlection in the Senate than in the House.
It is also true that there are more Republicans up for reëlection in the House than Democrats. And the House is traditionally more volatile.
Seems to me that Congressionally, the Republicans have as much to lose as the Democrats.
As for President Obama’s negotiating abilities — he did get ARRA and PPACA enacted. And a whole lot more. I wouldn’t exactly call it “poor negotiating skills” when the guy across the table has his eyes scrunched closed and his fingers in his ears and is screaming “NO!!” at the top of his lungs.
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#98 written by Max aka Birdpilot 1 year ago
rgb,
Sorry, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I’m calling it a freaking DUCK!
“My way ( looks like a duck), no compromise (walks like a duck), and “shut her down!” (quacks like a duck)”
More of a UBL tactic than one in a representative democracy.
Suppose you give us your analogy.
In business, I came across with very much the same personality as I do here. I fought hard, argued profusely with the courage of my convictions (much to the chagrin of my VP) and held fast as long as was practicable. But at the end of the day, I knew compromise was in order. I got as good a deal as possible, which sometimes meant very little, and always walked out proud of the accomplishments. Did I always agree with the results? No, and many times I was proven correct. But the organization was still better off for the experiment if for no other reason than to know better next time. And many times, in the heat of battle, I realized that MY idea was NOT the best at that time.
A lesson the Teabagger terrorists need to learn.
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parksie,
politicians that feel it is prudent to keep taxes at current levels and reduce spending to meet those levels are “economic terrorists”?
No. Politicians that want to bring the economy down and destroy for at least a generation the credit rating of our nation are economic terrorists. That they happen to also apparently wish to keep taxes at current levels and reduce spending is mere coincidence.
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rgbact,
It’s perhaps a bit of a stretch to use the word “terrorist,” but it’s not that much of a stretch. Terrorists believe enough in a cause that there is no limit to acceptable collateral damage, up to and including self-inflicted. That certainly applies here. Terrorists believe that there is no value in compromise, that their cause leaves no room for other perspectives or negotiation. That certainly applies here. Terrorists use fear of catastrophe as the tool by which to get their way. That, too, applies here.The only difference I can see (and I’m not sure how significant it is in a big picture sort of way) is that they’re not using threat of physical harm as the means to the feared catastrophe.
Is there some other difference of significance that I’m missing?
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About Michael Weiss (323 posts)
Michael is a jack of many trades, and master of a few. His varied background includes government and private businesses, both large and small. His experience in the financial services and computer industries has led him to computer security.






Boehner vote delayed. He needs no more than 24 “no” votes from his own party assuming all Dems vote no, which seems likely. Right now there are exactly 24, so some of the R “yes” votes must not be solid.
A loss on this would be a huge embarrassmdent for Boehner, and (perhaps) strengthen the hand of Harry Reid and the president. It just doesn’t get more dramatic than this.
NO (24)
Rep. Todd Akin (R., Mo.)
Rep. Justin Amash (R., Mich.)
Rep. Michele Bachmann (R., Minn.)
Rep. Paul Broun (R., Ga.)
Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R., Utah)
Rep. Jeff Duncan (R., S.C.)
Rep. Jeff Flake (R., Ariz.)
Rep. Trent Franks (R., Ariz.)
Rep. Phil Gingrey (R., Ga.)
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R., Texas)
Rep. Trey Gowdy (R., S.C.)
Rep. Tom Graves (R., Ga.)
Rep. Tim Huelskamp (R., Kan.)
Rep. Jim Jordan (R., Ohio)
Rep. Steve King (R., Iowa) (a “strong, strong lean no”)
Rep. Jeff Landry (R., La.)
Rep. Connie Mack (R., Fla.)
Rep. Mick Mulvaney (R., S.C.)
Rep. Ron Paul (R., Texas)
Rep. Dennis Ross (R., Fla.)
Rep. Tim Scott (R., S.C.)
Rep. Steve Southerland (R., Fla.)
Rep. Joe Walsh (R., Ill.)
Rep. Joe Wilson (R., S.C.)