Open Mic January 27

- Cause for concern
Two Republican Presidential debates rendered former House Speaker Newt Gingrich’s sure thing in Florida an equally sure unthing. Meanwhile, President Obama delivered his election-year State of the Union Address, previewing his upcoming campaign message. And the Supreme Court unanimously decided that law enforcement officers cannot install GPS devices on suspects’ vehicles without a warrant.
But that’s the stuff we wanted to talk about. Today’s Friday, and that means it’s time to talk about what you want to talk about. What’s on your mind?
Don’t see an article on a particular topic, but want to talk about it somewhere? This is Open Mic. Talk about whatever you want, but stay respectful.
We create a new Open Mic every week to give a clean slate, but feel free to add to this topic at any time.

This entry was posted by Logarchism.com on January 27, 2012 at 12:01 am, and is filed under Open Mic. Follow any responses to this post through RSS 2.0.You can leave a response or trackback from your own site.
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#2 written by WA7th 1 year ago
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#3 written by shortchain 1 year ago
If Newt wants to paint Obama with the Alinsky brush, perhaps Obama would point out that there is far more justification to associate Gingrich and the other modern conservatives (excepting Ron Paul, to his credit) with Leo Strauss.
Neither of these not-particularly-sympathetic figures would be a popular associate for a presidential campaign, but at least Alinsky was relatively honest and dedicated to swaying a democratic society. Neoconservatives (and, although Newt’s political philosophy is more of a smörgåsbord of right-wing tenets than anything coherent, it shares a lot with Neoconservative goals and methods), on the other hand, have outright called for lying and deceiving the public in order to get their way.
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I’d be interested in hearing what Logarchism readers from all over the political spectrum make of this:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012–01-26/brewer-obama-letter/52807280/1
I have a prediction, but I’m going to keep it to myself until all the comments are in.
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#5 written by shortchain 1 year ago
Monotreme,
I think Gov. Brewer wants to be Mitt’s VP pick. Or maybe just sell more copies of her (ghost-written) book. As for the brewer-ha-ha about the whole thing, I agree (in this instance) with Obama:“What I have discovered is that — I think it’s always good publicity for a Republican if they’re in an argument with me.“
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#6 written by Max aka Birdpilot 1 year ago
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Re: America’s sweetheart Brewer …
Obama acting presidential and Brewer acting like a spoiled brat er a typical disgruntled Rep politician.
btw, right after the White House meeting everything she said, yes Virginia we have video tape lol, was positive re: Obama, but in her book Obama was mean and condescending as Brewer is playing to her base by lying about Obama.
hmm, conservatives lying about Obama ~ rinse. lather, repeat.
Did I mention Brewer’s a sweetheart?
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#9 written by Armchair Warlord 1 year ago
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#11 written by rgbact 1 year ago
What I can’t know is how this plays with rgbact, GROG, and the pundits on the right.
You mean Brewer? Not a big fan of people spreading gossip about private conversations. Obama is probably right…bashing him is catnip to GOP politicians in red states. Worth a few points in the polls, a few interviews on FOX, and a few sold books. He should stay clear of AZ and travel to Europe more or Venezuela.….places where he’s more popular.
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#13 written by shortchain 1 year ago
DC,
I have no problem with a citizen expressing displeasure, by wagging a finger in the face of the President. He’s not a king, after all, there’s no “lese majeste” involved. And I don’t give a rat’s ass about “civility”, provided there’s no suggestion of violence.
Brewer is running for higher office. Remember, she’s term-limited. Until she became governor, thanks to Obama, BTW, she had little, if any, future, even in Arizona, where Republicans basically have sinecure positions in the state government and in most of their national political positions.
Now she sees an opportunity for upward mobility, thanks to the credibility vacuum at the top of the party. It’s not only the rest of us who marvel at the leadership of the GOP — even the party loyalists can’t agree on the people at the top of the ticket, and it isn’t just a mild preference. When they are roughly equally divided into three camps who cannot stand the favorites of the other camps, there’s a lot of opportunity for somebody to come in, capture the love of all three groups, and walk away with the party leadership.
Not that I think Brewer is capable of this trick. She’s prominently unintelligent, which by itself is no bar to climbing high in the GOP, especially out west, but she’s also not of the right gender and hasn’t been born enough times.
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I have no problem with a citizen expressing displeasure, by wagging a finger in the face of the President. He’s not a king, after all, there’s no “lese majeste” involved. And I don’t give a rat’s ass about “civility”, provided there’s no suggestion of violence.
Oh, I agree. My comment about the Secret Service was simply an observation, not a recommendation for future responses to Brewer. As I said, I agree with the President — it was no big deal.
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#15 written by rgbact 1 year ago
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#16 written by Max aka Birdpilot 1 year ago
Yeah, rgbact, the Prez needs to stay outta AZ and Israel, too, since all the GOP candidates rant about how shitty he treats that country! His ratings really must be in the crapper there as those Israelis are much smarter that those lefty Euros.
Oh, wait! What’s this??
Obama’s favorability rating among Israelis is 54%??? *
Well damn! Either the GOP people are lying or them Israelis are even stoopider that them Euros! Ya think?
*http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Foreign-Policy/2011/1203/President-Obama-sees-popularity-boost-in-Israel -
hmm, rgbact deflecting to Venezuela ~ totally out of the box for an Obama hater.
rgbact, during the “World” depression of the 1930s, most countries were broke.
And now the dynamics of the world economy has totally changed ie income inequality in America, whereby the U.S. is not in the same position as during WWII and after to help bail out Europe.
Things change as the rich keep getting richer in America. Where’s Teddy Roosevelt when we need him.
I digress.
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Well, rgbact, thanks to the unpopularity of Brewer and McCain, Arizona is a swing state this year. The fact that the President is going there for a visit is more evidence for its changed status.
I suspect it’s a mixture of Brewer being miffed at her fall in the polls and seeing an opportunity to sell books and/or move up in the Republican Leagues.
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#20 written by rgbact 1 year ago
Well, rgbact, thanks to the unpopularity of Brewer and McCain, Arizona is a swing state this year.
My good yet delusional friend Mono–
I would’t put too much money on Obama picking up Arizona. Swing state? C’mon…even PPP can’t make that dog hunt.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2011/12/02/20111202arizona-obama-election-nowicki.html -
#21 written by shortchain 1 year ago
rgbact,
I think that poll’s use-by-date has passed. Since that poll was taken we saw the catastrophic failure of the Boehner strategy on extension of the payroll tax cut, and we’ve seen nigh onto two months of the infighting among the putative candidates for the GOP nomination.
And then, of course, there’s the fact that, when asked if they favor a generic (that is, nonexistent) Republican over Obama, a lot of people will say yes. And then when presented with Gingrich, (or Santorum, or Paul, or Romney) they recoil in horror.
But you are, of course, welcome to believe the statistics you like.
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To elaborate on shortchain’s observation…
The most recent poll, taken in the days just ahead of the State of the Union address (and thus not subject to a possible temporary SOTU bounce), showed Obama with a five-point lead over Mr. Generic Republican. The poll was a registered-voter poll, which tends to overstate by about five points the actual-voter result. That puts Obama in a tie with GR.
Thus far, GR has done a couple of points better than Romney, who has done a couple of points better than Paul, who has done a couple of points better than Santorum, who has done a couple of points better than Gingrich.
In other words, Obama has a narrow lead over Romney, a bit larger lead over Paul, and a comfortable lead over Santorum and Gingrich.
All of that is, of course, subject to change.
As to his approval ratings, the national early-December spread was about –8 points. Today it’s –1.8. Has Arizona followed the national trend? Too early to tell, but I haven’t seen anything to suggest that it hasn’t.
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#24 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
I want to apologize for my behavior earlier in the week. The harsh and abrasive tone and unrelenting insults was uncalled for, and I’m sorry for that. I was in a bad mood and got a little carried away.….it’s no surprise that I’m not a big fan of President Obama, but there’s no excuse for using that as a platform to insult all of you relentlessly. Anyway, take care and have a nice weekend!
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#26 written by marc miwerdz 1 year ago
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#27 written by shortchain 1 year ago
marc,
I didn’t see it in the finger wag. But there’s definitely an undercurrent of something in the claim that Obama was “condescending” to Brewer in their private meeting, treating her, I gather, like a teacher would treat a not-particularly brilliant student.
Call me an unrepentant pedant, but I think that treatment, in the case of Brewer, would be perfectly appropriate. She’s far from the sharpest pencil in the box — even when compared with Rick Perry or Scott Walker she comes off below average. -
#28 written by marc miwerdz 1 year ago
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#30 written by Rose 1 year ago
There is quite a discrepancy between the “published letter” Brewer gave to Obama and the entire tome of ideas she says were contained therein. He just got off a plane and she is supposed to welcome him, not tie him up for hours talking about how wonderful she is.
Anyone think she might have been a witch in her earlier life? -
#32 written by curious jane 1 year ago
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marc,
Did anyone else detect the subtle sour scent of racism in that finger wag?
One can be sensitive to the point where one sees a race issue where merely a policy or partisan issue exists. I don’t think anyone here has enough information to be able to discern the difference in this case.
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Care to spell it out for me?
She’s fugly!
>
Glinda: Are you a Good Witch or a Bad Witch?
Dorothy: Who me? Why, I’m not a witch at all. ~ I’m Dorothy Gale, from Kansas.
…
But I’ve already told you. I’m not a witch at all. Witches are old and ugly.
Glinda: Only bad witches are ugly. The Munchkins are happy because you have freed them from the Wicked Witch of the East.
Dorothy: Oh, but if you please, what are Munchkins?
>
btw my congressman, Tim Ryan, is on Ed tonight. He and Sherrod Brown are very popular w/MSNBC.
carry on
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#39 written by shortchain 1 year ago
Michael,
Sure, you don’t have to be condescending toward somebody you have to work with — but in this case, I suspect that it was an impossible situation for Obama. If he talked to her as he’d talk to another adult, she wouldn’t understand. If he talked to her at a level she’d understand, she’d regard it as “condescending”.
Been there myself. Sometimes people don’t want to work at understanding you, but, when you reduce the concepts to a level they can understand, they say you are “condescending” (which, of course, you are — unavoidably). -
#40 written by WA7th 1 year ago
“What I have discovered is that — I think it’s always good publicity for a Republican if they’re in an argument with me.“
Surely he realizes it’s even better publicity for him. At least it was in the episodes with Brewer and Jindal
rgb: Yes, its amazing that such an obviously brilliant people could be so dead broke.
Yes, they really should back off the austerity measures and stoke the economy with some infrastructure projects.
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Yes, they really should back off the austerity measures and stoke the economy with some infrastructure projects.
I agree WA7th. European austerity measures are killing them. They’re into the third dip of their double-dip recession. They’re still losing jobs. America is recovering. If we cut back now, like the Europeans, we’re likely to have a European-style collapse. Look at Greece and Italy and Ireland, all of them on the verge of total bankruptcy because the European right wing is pushing austerity measures.
China is doing well because 1) they never bought this “austerity” BS and 2) because they (unlike America’s right wing) are willing to invest in America’s future.
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#42 written by Rose 1 year ago
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#43 written by Max aka Birdpilot 1 year ago
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#47 written by Mainer 1 year ago
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#49 written by Jean 1 year ago
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#50 written by Armchair Warlord 1 year ago
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#51 written by Jean 1 year ago
A handy-dandy summary of the US House Republican so-called Jobs Bills awaiting Senate action:
http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/gops-claim-house-passed-30-jobs-bills-bogus
And a chronological list of the US House of Representatives legislative activities by the GOP beginning 2-10-2011.
http://www.republicanjobcreation.com/
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#53 written by curious jane 1 year ago
Jean.
Thanks for the great finds. I knew this was happening but, couldn’t find the proof. It is worse than I realized. The trying to kill the EPA , the drug testing, women’s rights, voting rights, etc. and touting them as jobs bills is so regressive it truly is “Back to the Future”. I have been looking for this information since the first of last year.
Thank you. -
I agree.
Republicans were elected in 2010 on the promise to create jobs. They’ve done nothing whatever to create jobs. They’ve realized this is unpopular. So here come the lies,
In verbal gymnastics of Orwellian proportions, Republicans have started labeling every economy-killing or rights-killing or just plain killing bill as a “jobs bill”. It’s black-is-white, slavery-is-freedom nonsense.
But elected Republicans are used to saying the most outrageous and downright false things, and having the lemmings believe them.
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#55 written by Max aka Birdpilot 1 year ago
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#56 written by curious jane 1 year ago
When the freshman were running for their jobs, it was all about creating jobs. I guess the first clue that they weren’t serious was when they gave themselves more time off. Lucky for them, they are not working in the private sector, they’ld docked pay or fired. I hoped the Dems. are smart enough to make this exemplary and stellar peformance public knowledge.
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#57 written by curious jane 1 year ago
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#58 written by WA7th 1 year ago
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#59 written by rgbact 1 year ago
For people that are starved for a debate of real issues.…looks like Canada has a decent debate going over a conservative proposal to change the Soc Sec system. Looks like they want to up the age to 67 from 65 for future retirees. Pretty similar to whats been talked about here. Maybe Filistro can chime in on how the debate is going.
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#60 written by Mainer 1 year ago
rgb I would find the age increase proposal more realistic if people that age were having a better shot at getting or holding onto jobs. In some trades that actually require physical work many will just not make it. Hey maybe office workers are fine with it but not every one can do that. We really need to get people out of the labor force to open up jobs not create situations where they sit on jobs younger workers really need.
My wife has considerable family up there and one cousin and I bat politics around all the time. From what she has heard it stands little chance in fact I guess she had a pretty vigerous discussion on that and a couple of other matters recently with the representative of her ridding when he came to speak at her womens club. Unlike us the Canadians will hash this out in short order and make decisions one way or another but make them and move on. -
#61 written by Mainer 1 year ago
On the Canadian debate rgb this might be a starting point. Seems kind of familiar doesn’t it? My wife’s cousin had me read a different piece out of her home town (Toronto) or at least some where in Ontario but I can’t find it now. She just had me reading it earlier today too, D U H.
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Conservatives+have+Canadians+hole/6070958/story.html -
There’s a peculiar thing about the Social Security age. On the one hand, we’re living longer, and are typically of sufficient health to be capable of working well into our sixties. On the other hand, our desirability to employers begins to drop significantly as we pass into our fifties.
So the retirement age should be higher based on health, and lower based on employability.
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#63 written by Mainer 1 year ago
yup a real puzzel Michael. I think of so many of the folks around here that work really hard jobs. Guys in their 60’s are used up in the woods, saw mills, commercial fishing, farm laborers, all kinds of things. I understand how folks can work later than that my sister worked into her early 70’s but many can’t so what becomes of the ones that either get cast aside or that just can’t do it?
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#64 written by rgbact 1 year ago
On the Canadian debate rgb this might be a starting point.
Thanks. Looks like Canada has both OAS, which is a flat $533 monthly benefit, and CPP, which appears to be income related like Soc Sec. OAS appears to be on the table. Not sure how its funded.
but many can’t so what becomes of the ones that either get cast aside or that just can’t do it?
Become greeters at Walmart? Tough one. Hard to avoid the math though. If a pill was suddenly developed that made people live to 150, it would bankrupt society. Any idea what % of workers are employed in jobs that are very physically demanding? You can make the case that people in physical jobs are actually healthier than someone that sits at a desk all day.
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#65 written by shortchain 1 year ago
rgbact,
You say:You can make the case that people in physical jobs are actually healthier than someone that sits at a desk all day.
You can also make the case that, if pigs had wings, fields would fertilize themselves.
What you say is undoubtedly true of people into their early fifties. However, a point is reached when the results of the day-to-day risk of physical injuries start to pile up faster than they heal. Back injuries take their toll, and get worse with age, as the discs in your spine shrink with age. Bone spurs proliferate. Brain injuries don’t heal as fast (or at all) when you get into your sixties.
But I’m lecturing an actuary, this is probably wasted.
What’s really arrogant is some desk-jockey like you telling people who have no option but physical labor it’s good for them. -
#66 written by Mainer 1 year ago
rgb, there has actually been a study done up here through the Muskie center of the University of Southern Maine by one Charlie Cholgen (sp). Charlie is the one every one goes to for such stuff up here. If I remember correctly it references some other studies more national in scope. We unfortunately had a larger than national percentage of people doing physical labor or at least labor that had greater physical demands that much I remember of it. I’ll try to dig that out and provide a link later if I get some work done.
I was I guess one of the lucky ones most of my work over the years was more with my head and my voice box than my back but even with that I did my share of physical work when my other pursuits didn’t provide enough or I was between jobs. I can still do pretty well on some stuff but even I would not hire me and expect to get my monies worth for 8 to 10 hour days. The mind still thinks it can do it but the old back, legs, joints and unfornately heart seem to have other ideas. The whole physiacal labor is good for notion has some merit but when the body starts saying whoa when you want to say go it gets to be moot.
One of my grand fathers farmed until the day he died at 86 years of age. Dad worked in politics and county government until he was 79 and my sister worked full tme in the medical field until she was 71 so yes it can happen. Me I’m semi retired and doing consulting gigs at about 64 and seriously doubt I will be able to do much of that for very many more years and certainly not on a full time basis the damned road trips just wear my as out now. I look around at others of my age group and we seem to be one used up bunch of bastards. A number of my friends were mill rats of various kinds. There must be some thing about working in paper mills, saw mills and woolen mills that uses folks up but even those that might desire to stay until 67 would be hard pressed to find and keep employement. They just don’t want people my age. We are generally at the top of the pay scale, are more prone to injury and just don’t generally have the stamina of the young pups and business isn’t willing to pay for what we know over that which our backs can perform. I think this is going to open a bad can of worms that is going to really put any number of people in very bad situations. And no Idon’t have a clue what the answer is. Well I do but to enumerate it would not come out well and people like m will never have much input any way so it matters lttle. -
#67 written by rgbact 1 year ago
What’s really arrogant is some desk-jockey like you telling people who have no option but physical labor it’s good for them.
Just wanted to note that the sedentary life of a desk jockey isn’t all that healthy either. Without outside exercise, you turn into a slob pretty easily. Do you think we’d still have an obesity crises if we didn’t have so many desk jockeys? Anyways, just read that by 2060, 40% of Japan will be at least 65. How do you make that work? I think we can make considerations for the few in physical labor jobs without ignoring the realities of everyone else.Also looks like Stephen Harper is proposing 5 to 10% across the board cuts in Canadian government. Wow, actual cuts. That would never fly here.
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Got a text message from my conservative Dad in Texas, where I haven’t set foot in about 7 years.
Dad: You’ve received a jury duty summons
Me: Hooray! I get to vote twice!
Dad: That makes 3 votes against Newt