Open Mic April 27
Another week has gone by. The Secret Service is getting into sex games. The House passed a cyber security bill that is sure to go nowhere, while the Senate renewed the Violence Against Women Act. Newt dropped out of the presidential race, dashing hopes for an amphibian in the White House. George Zimmerman was released on bail, and raised $200,000 for his legal defense. President Obama slow jammed the news.
But that’s just stuff we noticed. What did you see? The floor is yours. Speak up!
Don’t see an article on a particular topic, but want to talk about it somewhere? This is Open Mic. Talk about whatever you want, but stay respectful.
We create a new Open Mic every week to give a clean slate, but feel free to add to this topic at any time.

This entry was posted by Logarchism.com on April 27, 2012 at 3:00 am, and is filed under Open Mic. Follow any responses to this post through RSS 2.0.You can leave a response or trackback from your own site.
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#3 written by mclever 1 year ago
I’m not convinced that the Cyber Intelligence Sharing (CISPA) bill passed by the House would make us any safer. “Voluntary” information sharing to avoid regulations being imposed on businesses is neither voluntary nor regulation free. If Google is giving the government carte blanche access to my information, that’s not being “secure in [my] person[s], house[s], papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures.“
First, I think CISPA is an undue invasion into our privacy, even with the Rogers/Ruppersberger Amendment limiting government use of cyber information to only 1) cybersecurity; 2) prosecution of cybersecurity crimes; 3) protection from death or serious bodily harm; 4) protection of minors from child pornography; and 5) national security, and the Abash Amendment restricting access to library records, medical records, gun sales, and tax information. With “cloud” computing and more and more of people’s private lives being stored online, the “restrictions” are out-dated almost as soon as they are written. The government shouldn’t be able to see my private information from the private companies with which I interact without a warrant and just cause.
Second, I never buy it when someone–especially the government–says to just give them everything and they’ll ignore what they’re not supposed to see. Yeah, right. Well-intentioned amendments or not, the government would have far too much access into information that should remain private. At some point, someone will bend the rules with an “ends justifies the means” excuse. No, if the Feds wanna read my email, they should have to get a warrant first.
Third, what if they stumble across other “illegal” behavior that doesn’t happen to fall under the restricted areas of library records and gun purchases? For example, if you crack a few too many online jokes about smoking weed, do they pass off a tip to narcotics enforcement? What if you live in California, or another state where “medical marijuana” is legal? Are they violating your medical information or not? Or maybe they’re sifting through financial records (not restricted) and find “suspicious” transfers of funds, but those fund transfers had nothing to do with the 5 approved areas of concern? Do they pass that tip along too?
Fourth, the information glut can cause more problems than it solves. Even with smart-filtering, they’ll get thousands more false-positives that they will waste resources trying to chase down, all without probable cause for even seeing the information. You might say something innocuous in a Facebook chat that somehow triggers an alert, and suddenly the FBI (and maybe CIA) are sifting through your life. (Maybe Dad cracks jokes about his naked baby taking a bath which triggers a child porn alert?) No. Not cool. And while they’re wasting time with you, they’ll miss the real threats.
And that’s just off the top of my head. I’m sure I can come up with a fifth, sixth, and even seventh objection if I think a little more… Where’s Ron Paul to be screaming about invasion of privacy and individual liberty when you need him? -
#4 written by mclever 1 year ago
@Max/Shortchain
You can look at state-by-state projections from RCP here:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html
According to their projections, Obama currently has 227 in the Likely or Leans category, compared to 170 for Romney and 141 Toss Ups.
If you click on the state, it’ll bring up any recent polling data. For example, from Nevada (which they classify as toss-up) you get:Poll / Dates / Sample / Obama / Romney / Margin
RCP Average / 12⁄12 — 4⁄1 / — / 49.0 / 42.3 / Obama +6.7
PPP (D) / 3⁄29 — 4⁄1 / 553 RV / 51 / 43 / Obama +8
Rasmussen Reports / 3⁄19 — 3⁄19 / 500 LV / 50 / 44 / Obama +6
Las Vegas Review-Journal / 12⁄12 — 12⁄20 / 600 RV / 46 / 40 / Obama +6
Looks like even Rasmussen’s Likely Voter filter has Nevada at about Obama +6 right now…
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#6 written by mclever 1 year ago
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LOL!
Thanks for the plug, mclever.
The supergreat part is that it’s on an introductory sale, half-price for a few more days. Can’t beat that with a stick.
A Melancholy Humour. Get it while it’s hot.
Also available from Amazon and Barnes & Noble, for the Kindle or the Nook, and at other fine ebook’ers.
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#8 written by Rose 1 year ago
Re CISPA: The more information is centralized, the more chances of abuse. I know I am preaching to the choir.
Here in Utah, hackers got hold of the State Medicad database and all the personal information contained therein. Then people who had never been on Medicaid/Aid to Dependent Children started getting letters from the State that their infromation had been compromised. Turns out that many physicians routinely send in their patients’ info in case they might be eligible for Medicaid.
As long as any government/organization/company can’t be trusted to keep their systems secure, we are all vulnerable. -
#9 written by Mainer 1 year ago
Shameless dc but cool none the less.
I find it interesting how the supposed party of small government just keeps the hits coming. They act as though they are working from a master list of people to piss off before the election. I must say a very interesting tactic. Makes one really curious what they think they have up their sleaves for November. I would feel better if instead of this mess of a cyber security bill some one would pass a voting machine security bill.
How is Nevada a toss up with those kinds of numbers? Am I missing some thing? -
Mainer,
I think Nevada is a toss up because 1) they may set the threshhold at like an average of +10 or some such, and/or 2) pollsters tend to assume polls lean about +5 to +7 for Democrats as compared to the actual election (which is why Rasmussen’s “likely voter” numbers are usually skewed the other way — Ras automatically subtracts about 5 — 10 points from the D column before publishing).
As for the book — if Chris Matthews and Rachel Maddow can plug their books on their shows, then I have no guilt about mentioning mine here.
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#11 written by mclever 1 year ago
Regarding RCP’s classification as Likely vs. Lean vs. Toss-Up, it looks like they’re using a combination of current polling information and past performance (and probably just some “gut feel”), because the numbers don’t like up exactly with the current polling margins.
On the Obama side, with exceptions as noted:
– All of the “Leans Obama” states are between +9 and +12 for Obama
– All of the “Likely Obama” states are +13 or better for Obama
– The exceptions:
Maine “Leans D” but polling at +18 for Obama
New Mexico “Lean D” but polling at +16 for Obama.
Connecticut is “Likely D” but only polling at+9 for Obama.All of the Toss-Ups are between +4 for Romney and +8 for Obama.
On the Romney side, with exceptions as noted:
– The “Leans Romney” states are all between +6 and +12 for Romney
– The “Likely Romney” states are mostly +13 or better for Romney
– The exceptions:
Tennessee (+5.3), South Dakota (+6), Texas (+7), and Kentucky (+8) also get “Likely Romney” despite polling lower than most of the “Lean” states. -
#12 written by Max 1 year ago
The reason I did NOT recommend to drill down to the state’s data on RCP is the wide disparity in timeliness in the polls cited.
Iowa, for example, averages 3 polls. One is a couple months old, 1 is 5 months old and 1 is six months old. Respectively, they have Romney +2, Obama +7 and Obama +4. So what good is it, really? -
#13 written by rgbact 1 year ago
Regarding RCP’s classification as Likely vs. Lean vs. Toss-Up, it looks like they’re using a combination of current polling information and past performance (and probably just some “gut feel”),
It might be because state polling is sparse, so its rarely credible, and the few polls that are done are often predominantly from PPP or Rasmussen–2 pretty biased sources. Just looking at their results for CO.…4 polls.…all from PPP. Looks like PPP learned the Rasmussen trick of blanketing the media with polls to drive a narrative since most media is too dumb to check the sources of data. -
#14 written by mclever 1 year ago
@Max
The way SC said it made it sound like he thought RCP had no state by state info. I thought it worthwhile to point y’all in the direction of what is available. Some information is better than no information, and RCP is a still a pretty good place to find out what (if any) polls exist for each state.
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#16 written by mclever 1 year ago
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#17 written by Mainer 1 year ago
Mac polls in Maine have always been a little bizarro. One might think Mitt would poll well here based on at least some New England back ground but that would be before a many point polling discount because that back ground was in Mass. We like the Red Sox, the Patriots, the Bruins and the Celtics after that it can get a little dicey.
RGB does have a point on some of this. On a state by state basis there can be some real holes in the data. I would really like to see some new stuff for Maine and the Senatorial race. A couple of my friends have been called the last few days so maybe there will be some thing out shortly. The betting at the coffee shop this morning has the Independent as the person to beat. One of the Republicans (teaper type) has a big money advantage already and could very well prevail in in the primary but get beaten baddly by either King the Indy or maybe who ever gets the nod on the Democratic side. I think we may have learned some stuff as a state last time around. -
#18 written by shortchain 1 year ago
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Max,
But then, it seems, reality set in again and, as of 26 April, the spread is 47.6 — 43.9 (-3.7).
Nate calls it “reversion to the mean”. It’s something to be aware of over the next couple of months. There are probably two different signals superimposed, and we’ll need to tease them out:
1) Long-term movement. This is the one that will tell us the likely outcome in November. Is the trend to the left or right? We don’t have enough decent data points to answer that yet, since we’re just getting out of the period of noise caused by the NotRomneys.2) Short-term bounces. Those will be identifiable by sudden, relatively large swings in one direction or another. This signal needs to be subtracted out, unless it’s one that happens in the last week of October or first few days of November. And, even then, a late bounce like that tends to be muted somewhat in the polling booth.
There’s a wild card in the mix, too. An ever increasing number of states are getting into the early-voting game. For the large-margin states, it won’t make a difference in the EV outcome, but it can matter in the swing states.
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mclever,
I’m not convinced that the Cyber Intelligence Sharing (CISPA) bill passed by the House would make us any safer.
I’m not, either. And that really bugs me, because we do need better protection for our infrastructure.
I’m particularly disappointed that the utility companies are opposed to mandated minimum security standards. The state of cybersecurity in the utilities is shameful.
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#21 written by mclever 1 year ago
BTW, the new quote of the week regarding tuition is almost exactly the same thing my Dad says all the time when he wants to complain about my brothers’ education costs. Supposedly, when Dad went to school, he could work part time (20 hours per week) at minimum wage and make enough to cover tuition (<$1000), room, board, and books. He doesn’t usually mention that he also had a car and cash left over for movies and dates, but I know these things based on the stories about how he and Mom met… He graduated debt free, is quite proud of it, and doesn’t hesitate to let his kids know how “irresponsible” we are if we can’t do the same. Hate to say it, Dad, but tuition prices have risen a bit since then.
Currently, 20 hours per week at minimum wage (~$5800-$7500, depending how many weeks) won’t even cover the tuition at most state universities. If I recall, the average in-state cost in 2008 was almost $13,000, which does not include room, board, books, etc, and most universities have hiked rates even further since then. Room, board, and books are about another $10,000 per year, so a part-time minimum-wage job doesn’t even cover a third of the annual cost of a college education at a state institution, let alone the ridiculous costs at a private institution where tuition averages more than $25,000 per year. Even working full-time 40 hrs per week for all 52 weeks ($7.25*40*52=$15,080) won’t cover the cost of a year of school, and that doesn’t leave much time for studying or attending classes.
Graduating debt free just isn’t an option for most students unless Mommy and Daddy already have enough saved to cover the costs themselves, and that isn’t likely to happen unless Mommy and Daddy are in the top income quintile already. -
#22 written by rgbact 1 year ago
Currently, 20 hours per week at minimum wage (~$5800-$7500, depending how many weeks) won’t even cover the tuition at most state universities.
Sounds like Obama needs to give a speech railing on greedy colleges and hefty bonuses for administrators and $1M pay packages for football coaches. Sure would be better than subsidizing them with generous loans for students.
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Mainer,
How is Nevada a toss up with those kinds of numbers? Am I missing some thing?
This far out, there are a bunch of factors outside of the polls themselves that matter.
For instance, I sense that, with Romney as the nominee, the enthusiasm gap will be larger than usual in Nevada. And, even though Rasmussen has a house bias of several points to the right, his margin of error is still high enough to make it possible that his lone recent poll is an outlier. Too early to tell.
I’m going to have an update next week, where I’ll explain in more detail the evolution of my model.
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#24 written by Max 1 year ago
mc,
Don’t worry about it. shortchain probably did SOMETHING that we don’t know about.
Kinda like grandma spanking ALL the children instead of even bothering to ask who broke the lamp. That way she was sure to get the right one, and the rest most likely did something deserving a spanking, she just didn’t know it.
Yet. -
#25 written by mclever 1 year ago
@Michael
I’m particularly disappointed that the utility companies are opposed to mandated minimum security standards. The state of cybersecurity in the utilities is shameful.
Indeed. And the alleged purpose of CISPA was to avoid regulating businesses. It’s like Congress is saying, “Just share everything with us, and we’ll take care of it.” Really, and that will make us safer or improve privacy? More likely, they’ll find out about a cyberattack after the fact. It may give them easier access to information for finding the perpetrators, but nothing they couldn’t get with a warrant already, especially after the attack.
What’s needed are decent security protocols that prevent an attack, and that’s not accomplished by giving someone else (whether government or otherwise) essentially unhindered access to the data. -
rgbact,
It might be because state polling is sparse, so its rarely credible
That’s certainly part of it. Now that the Republican nominee is established, polling resources that had previously been devoted to comparing Republican candidates in upcoming primary states will be shifted to the Romney/Obama matchup in close states.
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Mainer,
Mac polls in Maine have always been a little bizarro.
Exactly. That’s why it will take a larger margin in Maine polls to be confident about the outcome there.
The betting at the coffee shop this morning has the Independent as the person to beat. [in the Senate race]
Yeah, I think King’s most likely to be crowned in November. I plan to color the gradient green in the upcoming Senate map.
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#29 written by mclever 1 year ago
@rgbact
I wouldn’t mind a bit of railing at the costs of college, especially the out-sized compensation packages that some coaches get. But, then again, a winning football or basketball program often brings in more revenues, so to a school it may be worth the cost.
I think some of the problem is that some states are kicking in less and less of the cost, so the schools have to pass that cost on to their students. (California comes to mind, as one example.) I don’t know of any professors that I would consider “overpaid” based on their education, experience, and prestige, so that’s not the problem. However, changes in state funding can’t be the whole picture, because private university tuition also has risen rapidly. We’re looking at 7–10% tuition hikes compared to 2–3% inflation rates compounded over several years. Are the endowments shrinking that much? I’ve done a little looking, but those numbers are hard to find. -
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mclever,
the new quote of the week regarding tuition is almost exactly the same thing my Dad says all the time when he wants to complain about my brothers’ education costs
Isn’t it interesting how everyone naturally assumes that the next generation has the same circumstances as their own? OK, exaggerating on the “everyone”, but it’s really really common…even among those who you’d expect to know better.
rgbact,
Sounds like Obama needs to give a speech railing on greedy colleges and hefty bonuses for administrators and $1M pay packages for football coaches.
The football coach pay has long been covered by the additional revenue that comes to the school from television rights and the like. But the biggest change in the past 40 years has been the decreased funding provided to the state universities from the states’ general funds. Colleges became a lot less important as the technology race against the Soviets waned. Instead, the money began to shift to prisons. Kind of a sad shift, really.
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#33 written by Mainer 1 year ago
Mac I was pretty much like your dad as well. I graduated owing 200 dollars and my first wife and I were married for our senior year. But as you say what it cost then compared to what it costs now isn’t even in the same ball park.Tuition was slighly less than 1000. Books were much cheaper, Room and board every thing. Hell the apartment my wife and I lived in our senior year cost 75 dollars a month.
A young friend should graduate this summer from U Maine and he is looking at about 40K of debt and he sure as heck hasn’t lived high on the hog and he has worked pretty much full time in the summers and vacations and part time the rest of the year. What is really sad for him is that I will be surprised if he can even find work as an OT for handicapped kids. Not because we don’t have kids that need the help but because budgets have taken such a beating.
Even folks that did the whole service thing and then went to school are finding it difficult and I know a bunch of those. Pretty tough situation when people can’t get jobs because they do not have the required training or education and the work they can get does not allow them to make enough money to get the training. -
Rasmussen’s conservative bias aside, as Chucky T mentioned last week, LV polls are useless until about (2) mos. before the election. hmm, after Labor Day ie no one has a clue what a likely voter looks like until just before the election.
And it’s easier to skew LV polls if one has a political agenda er trying to make mittens/McCain etc. look good.
As always, Rasmussen gets ‘A’ for effort!
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Rhetorical question: (((If))) Walker loses the WI recall, will mittens still say Walker is his hero?
Interesting the same voter negativity/outrage re: incumbency that swept Walker and his fellow teabaggers in in 2010 “could” sweep Walker out in 2012 …
The yin and yang of politics er overreach!
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#35 written by Max 1 year ago
Obama needs to give a speech railing on greedy colleges and hefty bonuses for administrators and $1M pay packages for football coaches.
the average in-state cost in 2008 was almost $13,000, which does not include room, board, books, etc, and most universities have hiked rates even further since then.
In 1970 tuition at South Carolina was $500/yr with books, room and board for the 2 terms was about $1200. A total of about $1700/year.
Minimum wage was $2, so for 20hrs/week for 30 weeks and 40hrs/week for 16 during the summer, the total would have been about $2400. School paid for an some walking around money left over.
This year, the tab is about $9000 for the year, $4400 for room and $2600 for meals. A total of $16,000.
Minimum wage is $7.25. So the same hours would yield $9000. So it just pays for tuition, the $7000 for room and board is on your own and NO money for walking around or anything else!
rgbact, you’ll get no argument from me on your points.
But, and its a BIG BUT, in 1970 the state covered about 75% of the cost of state university operations. Today, states average only about 20%. So when you talk about “subsidization”, you have to realize that there was a lot of that going on 40 years ago as well. The states have, essentially, shifted that subsidizing to the feds in the form of federal grants and loans. Although, with the wholesale cost of money @ 1%, and a mortgage at about 4%, banks can’t bitch too much about 3.4% student loan interest! -
mclever,
I don’t know of any professors that I would consider “overpaid” based on their education, experience, and prestige, so that’s not the problem.
Or maybe it is. How much were they getting paid in the 1960s?
The problem here, as you noted, is that we don’t have access to comparative data from which to draw conclusions about the differences between now and a half century ago.
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#37 written by mclever 1 year ago
@Michael
Perhaps I’m exaggerating a bit because I don’t like the law. Of course cause analysis can help prevent futurre attacks, assuming that analysis is acted upon. The problem (as I see it) is that there are already plenty of things they could do to improve security before an attack, but they’re avoiding these things because they “don’t want to increase regulation.” So, even if there’s superb root cause analysis post fact, what assurances do I have that any lessons learned will actually be acted upon? Or will more fear of regulation paralyze them…
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mclever,
The problem (as I see it) is that there are already plenty of things they could do to improve security before an attack, but they’re avoiding these things because they “don’t want to increase regulation.”
Having been on the inside, it seems that they’re avoiding these things because being more secure is inherently less efficient in daily operations than being less secure. Many of the secure behaviors are hassles:
– Rolling passwords with minimum entropy requirements
– Access control doors in frequently-used paths
– Air-gapped networks that need data to cross the gap
And many, many more. Security is inconvenient. -
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#41 written by mclever 1 year ago
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#42 written by parksie555 1 year ago
The proper way to encourage and pay for college education in America?
Let market forces work as they should without using taxpayer dollars to distort the true value of an education.
If people want to spend $160K at some small liberal arts school for a degree in ethnic studies, comparative literature, or art history that gets them a job earning $30K a year, that’s fine. Just don’t expect taxpayer help to pay for it. Eventually most consumers will figure out that the service they are purchasing isn’t worth the cost. If there is a real want or need for the service, someone else will figure out how to provide the service for less money, and both the consumer and society will benefit in the long run. -
#43 written by mclever 1 year ago
@Michael
Comparative numbers are difficult to find, but I was able to find this study that compared 1970 salaries to 1990 salaries in 1990 dollars. A surprising element to me was that professors at private institutions were on average paid less than those at public institutions, though the gap had almost closed by 1990, and the trend lines were similar. From what I gather, salaries for professors in 1970 were at a relative high, then dropped to a relative low in 1980, then climbed back to almost the same 1970 level by 1990. The paper suggests that such trends are normal and cyclical, and based on recent salary trends at the Universities that I am aware of, professor salaries have been relatively flat or falling for about a decade now.
So, while tuitions are climbing at 7%, professor salaries have certainly not kept pace. Assuming my math is right, the “average” professor in 1970 would probably be making about the same in inflation-adjusted dollars as a professor today. -
#44 written by mclever 1 year ago
@parksie
The problem with that approach, is that society as a whole benefits from having a more educated populace. Adults with college degrees are more likely to be productive, employed members of society contributing to the GDP and to the tax base. Therefore, a state/federal investment in educating young people pays for itself in the long run. If students (especially poor students who we want to enable to climb the socio-economic ladder) can’t afford a basic college education, then society as a whole suffers and we as a nation lose our competitive edge. As a proud American, I don’t want us to lose that competitive edge which has helped to make us a thought-leader and industrial-leader in the world. We are in danger of losing that if we back away from the investment in education.
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Gallup Daily Tracking ~ Obama 50/mittens 43
All things being equal ie mittens = train wreck + total negativity w/no discernible/rational economic plans and Obama = competent incumbent C-in-C. If unemployment continues to slowly improve before Nov. Republicans will be sweating bullets re: Obama coattails.
Stay tuned …
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If students (especially poor students who we want to enable to climb the socio-economic ladder) can’t afford a basic college education …
You’re assuming that the opinion shapers and oligarchs in our society actually want poor students to climb the socio-economic ladder. I honestly don’t think the Rupert Murdochs and Donald Trumps and John Boehners want that.
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#49 written by shortchain 1 year ago
Parksie,
There’s a bit of a problem with your market-based theory. Sure, it might work if the people in line to make the mistake have some way of hearing the truth from the people who know better (perfect information, IOW). Which they don’t, typically. And even if they did, it would be disaster, socially speaking, if a huge proportion of young people made their education decisions based on what specialties are salable right now.
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#50 written by Mainer 1 year ago
Back when an individual could support themselves digging ditches by hand an education was looked on differently. WWII pretty much showed the world the value of an educated citizenry. In todays society there are many jobs that still need to be done but that parksies free market will never pay at an appropriate level. The young man I mentioned earlier would be a classic example. To check the free market one would think we didn’t need Occupational Therapists. Truth is there are not enough of them and in many settings the people doing the work start for really low amounts of money. I have two Autistic grandsons, they are going to need people trained in a variety of skills before its over. Any system that only values education if it allows some one to make tons of money isn’t much of a system and will denigrate the society it is a part of if not destroys it.
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#51 written by Max 1 year ago
South Carolina
The Presidents of the 3 major state research universities, Clemson, USC and Medical USC make. with the supplements provided by each university’s Foundation, make $500k, $500k and $700k, respectively.
These seem about average for state research universities.
The presidents of the @‘s (USC at Aiken, USC Upstate, UT San Antonio, Texas A&M Corpus Christi, etc) are making in the $200k -$250k range.
Full tenured professors at these two state’s universities are making in the $125k range. -
#52 written by Mainer 1 year ago
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Just one other note about Rep. Foxx…she took seven years of taxpayer subsidies for her undergraduate degree, nearly double the typical amount. It really seems as if she should be pretty close to the last person to be justified in her particular complaint.
There is, by the way, a grain of truth in parksie’s comment. If we heavily subidize a degree that doesn’t create value on the other end commensurate with the cost, it’s rather a waste. I’m not sure how we would quantify the value-add, though.
One thing that makes it much tougher to determine the value of a particular degree is the whiplash effect (more commonly associated with supply chains, but it applies here, too). MBAs used to be extremely valuable, but their high value drove many more people to obtain their MBAs. Now, so many people have them, even from really good schools, that the degrees’ value has fallen. But the new status quo requires it for a significant number of jobs that didn’t require it in the past, even at the now-reduced salaries. So how valuable is that MBA?
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#54 written by shortchain 1 year ago
I’m with mclever on this issue. Tell me who you are measuring the value of the degree to — the person who will get the degree, the person (or organization) who will pay for the degree, or society at large — and maybe the question of worth of the degree will make sense.
Even if you restrict the question of worth to a strictly monetary one (which, as Mainer says, is a crassly materialistic and narrow way to measure worth and hardly measures the true worth of the degree) the prediction of the worth of a degree at the time when the choice of degree has to be made is very difficult.
For example, what was a degree in, say, Electrical Engineering worth in 1990, just before the huge push to outsource electronic manufacturing and design? What did its worth appear to be in 1987, when the choice was made to pursue such a degree?
I often wonder at the people who sneer at a degree in “liberal arts”. How do you know what that degree is worth to the person who got it?
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#55 written by Mainer 1 year ago
The liberal arts boogie man. There are any number of schools that turn out some pretty fine people with liberal arts degrees and I can think of any number of folks that have turned such studies into jobs in various things. Some things require more global perspectives than others. My nephew the mechanic spent a fortune on tools and training. Will he ever get rich? Nope. Do we want to try and make it with out people such as he? I don’t. Do we want State Department personnel that are fluent in several languages, culturally aware and capable of dealing with all kinds of different issues?
There are schools out there that I think should be questioned. Diploma mills don’t do much for any one but most people do get value out of being educated, now if we could just get some of our politicians to try it. -
#56 written by Max 1 year ago
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It’s not necessarily “liberal arts” as a catch-all, but clearly some degrees pay for themselves in increased income potential, while others don’t.
For those that don’t, it’s hardly unreasonable to ask if we should be subsidizing the degrees. Are we getting some broader social benefit that compensates for the insufficient income growth? (For example, Arabic and Mandarin languages are extremely valuable to many government agencies for reasons of national security.) Those would probably be a better deal if we subsidized the educational side of the equation than if we paid more in a salary on the other end due to low supply.
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#58 written by shortchain 1 year ago
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As it turns out, mittens and Paul Ryan would make a perfect pair!
Paul Ryan Abruptly Distances Himself From Ayn Rand
FLASHBACK: Rand ‘The Reason I Got Involved In Public Service’
Father forgive him for he knows not …
One of many hilarious HP comments: “I did not have ideological relations with that woman.”
Indeed Ryan, much like mittens, is a totally confused pup!
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btw, HP has it 269 Obama/170 mittens ie mittens has to run the table ~ FL/VA/NC/IA/MO/CO/AZ/NV. Obama getting (1) electoral vote from NE in 2008 notwithstanding.
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turdblossom just called the koch boys asking for more $$$!
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Mitt Romney is now warning that America must protect Czechoslovakia from the Soviet Union.
I kid you not.
And this is the imbecile that the Republicans are about to nominate for President.
Where do they find these idiots? And why oh why does anyone vote for them?
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#65 written by rgbact 1 year ago
So, you want to limit college to the incredibly wealthy. As if there weren’t enough ways to insure that the rest of us don’t get good jobs.
Sounds like the same thought process that led to the housing meltdown–everyone in America deserves a house/degree at low interest rates even if we know they can’t pay the money back. My guess is student loans will be the next huge bubble for our economy. Get ready for more bailouts.
Our economy is built on businesses figuring out ways to make once expensive products affordable to the masses, whether its laptops or Ipads or McMansions or steak or SUV’s. So, I’m not worried about a free market for education.
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Romney has spoken on foreign policy issues before.
Like an idiot, yes.
But his focus for this election is domestic. That’s certainly appropriate, given that for the past three years Americans have clearly stated that the economy is their top priority.
Which works well for Romney, because he not only knows nothing about foreign policy, but doesn’t want to know anything about foreign policy. His focus is on making Romney more rich.
If Romney gets to be president, he will assemble a bunch of neocons into a room and invade the country they recommend. That is the limit of his “foreign policy.”
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#69 written by Max 1 year ago
Romney didn’t refer to Czechoslovakia. It was a member of his staff. It’s still surprising to hear that name over two decades after its dissolution, though.
Actually, it was BOTH names, as neither Czechoslovakia nor the Soviet Union have existed for that time. Note that it was Romney foreign policy adviser Pierre Prosper who actually said it. Prosper was an ambassador under Bush. And John Lehman, former Reagan Navy Secretary, another Romney foreign policy adviser stated in the same call: ““We’re seeing the Soviets pushing into the Arctic with no response from us. “
People who, better than the average American, SHOULD know better!everyone in America deserves a house/degree at low interest rates even if we know they can’t pay the money back. My guess is student loans will be the next huge bubble for our economy.
rgbact, I expect you missed the earlier comments. Since a large proportion of the number of students graduating with debt come out of state universities and colleges. A principle reason that state colleges cost so much is because their states’ have cut their financial support to the point that few are truly state-supported any more, and could be better described as state-assisted.
Forty years ago, 75–85% of their operations were underwritten by their state, keeping tuition low for in-state students. Today, that is closer to 20%. As the states have reneged on their commitment to investing in their future and the costs to attend those “state” schools has risen, the burden has shifted to paying for tuition with federal loans and grants.
So the subsidizing, which has existed for well over a century, have truly only shifted from state to federal.
And since the wholesale cost of money to the banks is not even 1%, loan costs of 3.4% for students is STILL a pretty decent mark-up. Banks are giving out mortgages at essentially the same price.
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#70 written by Max 1 year ago
A bigger problem is the issue of the “for-profit” colleges. (U of Phoenix, Kaplan, Bridgepoint and ITT, etc) Over 85% of their revenue comes from federally subsidized loans and grants. They have low graduation rates and are constantly on the hot seat for predatory “recruiting” practices and overselling their job placement results. And they have, by far, the WORST default rates on student loans.
We discussed what college presidents make. Take a look at what the CEO’s of the “educational” corporations make: Andrew Clark, CEO Bridgepoint, $20 million; Chris Edelstein, Apollo Group (U of Phoenix), $11 million; Kevin Modany, ITT Tech, $7.6 million.
And they spend huge sums on lobbying to keep their practices going. -
#71 written by Mainer 1 year ago
Yeah can’t wait for a foreign policy built on a cold war frame. But when a good part of your campaign seems built around labeling every one that disagrees with you a communist, socialist or Marxist I guess it is to be expected. At least when the left counters with Fascism we at least have the definition right.
RGB that those in power have allowed the American wage scale to at best stagnate and seem to think passing off the needs of the people (you know the ones they used to pay for in wages) to any body but them and then through their actions again seem to wish for a public response to be down gradded or removed then yes I think in a country such as ours we do have some responsibility toward housing the masses and educating them so that just maybe we don’t finish a descent into third world status.
Can any one argue that a well fed, healthy, saftly housed educated work force or population will be more productive than one that is not. Pretending that some invisible benevolent guiding hand will take care of every thing does not at present seem born out by the conditions on the ground. -
The “experts” a candidate picks to advise him/her is a reflection on said candidate’s wisdom aside …
Russia is America’s Number One Enemy ~ mittens
Mitt Romney said today that Russia — not Iran or North Korea — is the United States’ “number one geopolitical foe,” adding that Russia “always stands up for the world’s worst actors.”
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When pressed by Blitzer as to whether he truly believed Russia was a bigger foe than Iran or China, Romney sought to clarify his remarks, but did not back away from his argument.
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Russia’s president responds …
“As to ideological cliches, I have already spoken on the subject. I always get very cautious when I see a country resort to phrasings such as “number one enemy.” It is very reminiscent of Hollywood and certain period of history. I would advise two things to all US presidential candidates, including the person you just mentioned. My first advice is to listen to reason when they formulate their positions. Reason never harmed a presidential candidate. My other advice is to check their clocks from time to time: it is 2012, not the mid-1970s. No matter what party a candidate represents, he has to take the current state of affairs into account. That is the only he could count on winning.”
mittens getting schooled by Medvedev ~ how embarrassing! If mittens is asked a question in the debates about this faux pas, his song and dance reply should be somewhat amusing.
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All of mittens’ foreign policy advisers being Bush41/43 retreads notwithstanding!
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#73 written by rgbact 1 year ago
Yeah can’t wait for a foreign policy built on a cold war frame.
Funny, since Obama’s foreign policy with Russia seems to be about rewinning the cold war. Didn’t he have some big treaty on reducing nukes with Russia and a bunch of other non-threatening countries like Canada? Don’t think Russian nukes have been a major foreign policy concern for about 20 years now.
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#74 written by shortchain 1 year ago
rgbact,
There’s a bit of windage between re-igniting the Cold War and ignoring as a non-threat the country with the second-largest nuclear arsenal in the world. An arsenal with delivery vehicles that can strike anywhere in the world, unlike, say, India, or Pakistan, or North Korea.
To start treating Russia as if it were an outright ally like Great Britain, or even like France, would be an act of utter folly.
And multi-lateralism is the new way foreign policy is done, and, as has been shown, it’s a lot more effective than “cowboy diplomacy”. -
#75 written by Max 1 year ago
Don’t think Russian nukes have been a major foreign policy concern for about 20 years now.
See, it’s statements as this that causes one to wonder if the ignorance is actual or deliberate. A couple of keystrokes would educate a person on the who, what, why and when. Given that ease of education, it truly makes one wonder. Is it a complete lack of curiosity about facts?
shortchain said it quite well as far as the what, why and when concerning New START.
SORT was the agreement between George W. Bush and Путин, signed only 10 years ago, to reduce the nuclear warheads on both sides.
Just a little history without ideology, please.
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#76 written by Mainer 1 year ago
Don’t think Russian nukes have been a major foreign policy concern for about 20 years now.
http://www.nti.org/gsn/article/gop-lawmakers-blast-proposed-nuclear-arms-deployment-cuts/
http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,242462,00.html
Not sure RGB but you might want to tell your side in Congress that it isn’t an issue because they sure as hell seem to want to make it one. -
Republicans in the House learned nothing from the fight over extending the payroll tax reduction. Remember when they reluctantly “agreed” to it, but attached a bunch of unrelated right-wing provisions with no chance of getting approval from the Senate or the President?
The House has now passed a bill to keep student loan rates low — buy have attached to it a defunding of preventive health care and health care for women under the ACA.
What a despicable pack of game players and naked partisans.
What happened to their “pledge” to keep their bills without unrelated riders and amendments? They never intended to do that — it was all hypocritical and cynical propagandizing. Elected Republicans are incapable of being honest, and don’t give a damn about the nation. They care only about raw partisan political power, and they make that more clear every day.
As with the payroll tax cut, this partisan game will backfire. Not only will they be forced to pass a clean bill when they get back from their weeklong recess, but they have now destroyed any hope they had of making inroads into the votes of young people, women, and anyone who values health care.
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#79 written by Armchair Warlord 1 year ago
You know, I’ve been meaning to write an article about the Russian military recently, mostly because I have been criticized for my views on the subject and I want to address it at length. Maybe in a couple weeks. I hope that might inform any discussion on whether they are or are not a policy issue.
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#80 written by mclever 1 year ago
I’m at the Iowa District Democratic Convention for my district today. Shockingly, Obama is getting all of our delegates.

More amusing are the gift baskets that they’re auctioning to fill time while votes on planks or committees are counted. The last basket included farm-fresh frozen pork chops. heh.
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#82 written by mclever 1 year ago
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#83 written by Mainer 1 year ago
Arm Chair not a mover and shaker here but that would be cool at least from my perspective. A very changed military compared to what it was in my day. Does not mean a lesser military does it? I think Russia still has much ground to make up in certain areas. Their navy has taken a beating and while they have ICBM’s with capability they have a service with out much experience. I would be interested in your read.
Mac I have a very good friend that is a small farmer and he is doing a bunch with things such as farm fresh frozen meat. He invested in the equipment and his regular customers that already liked his quality enjoy having some level of convienience with that from the farm stand buying habit.
By the way AW don’t take certain push back in as negative a way as I think you do. You try to put forth a position born of what you do. I do the same, as it is hard to ignore who and what we have been. You only got crimped on what seemed a position that we and all of our allies needed to redouble our efforts at this time. Refocus them maybe but there are limits. -
#84 written by mclever 1 year ago
Well, I’m home from the Dem convention now. Lots of good discussion and lots of voting, but generally a well-unified and energized support of Obama and all of the local candidates, too. There was a “peace” contingent who considered sending an “uncommitted” delegate to the Convention. They were all Obama supporters, but they wanted to send a message to Obama about their unhappiness with some of his decisions, especially on foreign policy. After discussion, everyone else convinced them to commit to Obama, and the “peace” delegate ended up as the alternate to the national.
I should add that we had higher than usual turnout, and more than half were first-time delegates.
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mclever,
Thanks for the report.
It seems to go against “common wisdom.” Since there was a contested Republican nominating process, one would have expected Republican turnout at the caucuses and primaries to be relatively high. Since there is an incumbent Democrat who is running unopposed (despite some Republican effort to pretend that President Obama is “unpopular” and that his partisans don’t like him), one would have expected Democratic turnout to be relatively light.
And yet, Republican showing at primaries and caucuses has been lower than expected, throughout this process — and Democratic turnout has been more than people thought it would be.
This may mean (gods willing) that the “enthusiasm gap” is working the opposite way this year from what it did in 2010. I think moderates, Indies, and (most particularly) liberals got really scared seeing what happened in the midterms. A nearly insane far-right crowd got into power, on false promises, and dragged our nation so far toward a fascist cliff I think it has energized a backlash that no one (certainly not the Republicans) expected.
The question remains whether unlimited Citizens United money will end up working for or against corporate fascism. I wonder — if Democrats wind up raising more money than Republicans, and have a big win this year, will we suddenly see conservatives screaming that PACs and undisclosed donors are evil? Will we see a Republican drive to reverse Citizens United?
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#86 written by shortchain 1 year ago
Here’s another report from the hinterlands. This time, however, the hinterlands are my working space, where I was engaged in the difficult but absorbing task of writing some software that will, in all likelihood, never be used for anything, when the telephone rang.
Picking it up and speaking “hello” in the clipped and aggressive tone I use when disturbed, a woman on the other end asked for me by name (mis-pronouncing my surname, nearly always a dead giveaway that this will not go well). I replied tersely by inquiring, still in my clipped and pushy tone, who wanted to know. It was a person from the Young Republicans, wanting to play for me a message of apparently vital import from their president.
As I have mentioned before in these threads, my fixed and dedicated position on unsolicited calls is to let them spend their money, so I gave the go-ahead. On the earpiece I then received a harangue by someone who apparently learned the methodology of speechifying by studying George W. Bush and Pat Robertson. I let it go on for its entirety, and I won’t bore you with the details. Suffice it to be said that it was nothing but an attack on Obama the man, not on his policies, not on the Democratic Party or its policies, but just one vague accusation of “socialism”, or “taking over”, after another. The speaker was obviously trying to work himself (and, one presumes, his audience) into a lather, and his voice climbed through several decibels as he listed the vague generalities that upset him, primarily the fact that Obama has been going around to colleges and universities and giving speeches (how dastardly!)
Well, all good things come to a conclusion, and this one finally did as well, and a different woman came on to rake in the take, explaining that the YR, infuriated by this assault on their turf by Obama, were setting out on a “do or die” mission (the exact words used!) to defeat Obama.
To which I replied, that, in that case, I hoped they got the latter result and hung up.
As those who have read my comments over the last several months know, I’m not enthralled by Obama or his policies. I’m a charter member and supporter of the Glenn Greenwald contingent, a FireDogLake reader, and I read emptywheel every chance. But it is just an example of the psychological phenomenon known as “projection”, carried to insane lengths, to make the election about simple opposition to the man, not to his policies (which are all too often simply Republican policies of the recent past) or the policies of his party. Republicans have complained, after all, of the “cult of personality” for Obama by Democrats (of which we don’t see all that much evidence), but they have apparently succumbed to the same thing in opposition.
Mark my words here: if the GOP goes this route, they will lose. While it may fire up their base, and energize the rabid right wing and the racists that seem to be all that’s left of their firm support, it will disgust and repel a huge segment of the independent voters.
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#87 written by Max 1 year ago
And another report:
Researchers found that on average women who breast-fed their babies for six months or longer experienced a dramatic drop in income. Five years after the birth of their babies, the women were still making about $5,000 per year less than they had before the birth of their children.
One factor that explained much of the drop in income was a reduction in hours — and this was true even though most of the women in the long-duration group were managers or professionals and said they worked because they liked to.So, is there cause for legislation that will result in women who work fewer hours because they choose to breast feed to be paid the same as men who work longer hours?
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Max,
I have some questions about that report. Are the women still breastfeeding after five years? Did their hours return to the “standard” at some point, or did their breastfeeding stint mean that they are still losing $5000 worth of time every year? By how many hours, exactly, did breastfeeding reduce their work week? One? Three? Were they given opportunities to make up that time?
I’d be curious to have the details.
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Sadly
hardly ever get political calls. Received (1) about a month before the ’08 election from a dedicated Obama campaign worker. We had a nice conversation and she was happy to hear “we” had something in common as I also voted for McGovern in ’72.And yes shortchain, if mittens/cons/Reps/turdblossom have already sprung/started the LCD scorched earth bottom of the barrel anti-Obama robocalls, etc … mittens is indeed toast come Nov.
Although he’s probably toast regardless lol.
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Again, in all sincerity, Republicans really are sore losers. Especially when they lose to a Muslim born in Kenya!
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#92 written by Max 1 year ago
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#93 written by mclever 1 year ago
@DC
I don’t know about the women in the study, but if a woman takes a pay hit for taking maternity leave, then that pay hit is compounded after she returns to the workforce, because once you get behind, it’s nearly impossible to catch up without changing careers. If 5 years after maternity leave she’s $5K behind, then after 10 years maybe $7K, and the difference just keeps getting greater. Same thing happens to military reserves returning from being called up to active duty, btw. They come back at “the exact same pay” that they had when they left, which puts them a couple of years behind their peers salary-wise. Most companies structure raises based on percentages rather than fixed amounts, (i.e. 5% instead of $2000), which means the percentages compound over time.
The other aspect (which is more to Max’s point) is whether women should be compensated/encouraged to breastfeed for six months as is recommended by pediatricians because of the multitudinous health benefits for both mother and child. Unfortunately, this is one of those things where there really is a difference in the sexes, because fathers don’t have the option of doing the 6 months of breast-feeding on behalf of their wives. Even if the mother keeps working and daddy stays home, the mother is still the one who needs a break every few hours to go pump milk. The question we should ask is whether we want to penalize women disproportionately for the biological requirements of bringing forth healthy members of the next generation. The 6 months of breastfeeding now might save thousands of dollars in allergy treatments and other medical care that won’t be needed later. Might even save millions in breast cancer treatments that Mom avoids. But because Mom makes that choice for her and her baby’s future health, she takes a big hit on her lifetime earnings and future Social Security benefits. For those on the margins, it becomes a choice she can’t afford to make, which actually ends up costing all of us more in the long run. -
#95 written by Max 1 year ago
mc,
Mom makes that choice for her and her baby’s future health, she takes a big hit on her lifetime earnings and future Social Security benefits.
Some countries put a dollar value for stay at home mom’s work there and credit that as social security earnings at retirement age. Has anyone calculated how much, in withholding taxes and percentages of other workers that would come out to in the US?
Thanks Mono. I’ll take a gander.
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Second poll gives Democrat Heidi Heitkamp a five-point lead
“ND-Sen: North Dakota Democrats have just put out a new poll from DFM Research that finds former AG Heidi Heitkamp leading GOP Rep. Rick Berg 49–44 in the open-seat Senate contest (up from 42–41 in December, numbers which were not publicized at the time). Barack Obama trails Mitt Romney by a very wide 51–32 margin, so you can’t accuse this poll of being too rosy—especially since the spread was a narrower 40–28 in December. (Though 28% for an incumbent president in any state… ouch.)
This is only the second public survey of the race, and the first (from back in November) also showed Heitkamp on top by five points, 47–42. Republicans didn’t have an answer to that poll, and if they don’t have an answer to this one, either, then we may have to reconsider our “Lean R” rating here. Indeed, Berg paid $24,000 to Republican pollster Public Opinion Strategies for “survey research” in early January, and we never saw those numbers, so the absence of any contrary Republican data is starting to look a bit glaring.
Meanwhile, according to reports, they DSCC is about to go up on TV with an ad buy worth some $76K. (A sum like that goes pretty far in a tiny state like North Dakota.) As Politico’s Maggie Haberman notes, that would make this the first independent expenditure by either national Senate campaign committee this cycle. We’ll keep a look out for the DSCC’s ad and bring it to you as soon as we see it.”
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(((If))) Republicant’s can’t/don’t pick up both the ND & NE, ie Dem Bob Kerrey’s runnin’, senate seats this election cycle the shit will surely hit the RNC’s fan!
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#97 written by mclever 1 year ago
Anyone else see the Obama campaign’s new “Forward” video?
What do folks think? Effective? Lame? Inspiring? Dismal? Will it only rev up the already committed Obama supporters, or does it have persuasive potential?
I’m sure that most Democrats will love the recap of Obama accomplishments and the reminders of how far we’ve climbed back since the bottom of 2008, but I can also already hear the Republican jokes that suggest he’s had the country in Reverse for the past three years, and now he wants to go Forward… -
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rgbact, 9⁄11 happened on cheney/bush’s watch ie “they” were caught w/their pants down re: preserve, protect and defend the U.S. Constitution.
There has been no such faux pas on Obama’s watch. And mittens stated categorically he would not pursue bin Laden to Pakistan.
Re: forward, as mentioned above, all of mittens “so called” foreign policy team are Bush 41⁄43 retreads. Yea, that’s the ticket!
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Just replying to rgbact’s ad nauseam snark w/facts!
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Been interesting watching the track of the RCP poll of polls.
A couple weeks ago, when the field cleared for Romney, it appears that he got a “post convention” bounce. On 11 April he was down 48.5 — 43.2 (-5.3). He climbed the next week, reaching a “high” of 47.0 — 45.3 (-1.7) on 18 April. But then, it seems, reality set in again and, as of 26 April, the spread is 47.6 — 43.9 (-3.7).
Interesting.