Something Changed
Yesterday was historic. For the first time, a sitting President publicly supported same-sex marriage. Barack Obama continues to make history.
There’s a lot to say about this. But I want our commenters to say it. I’ll provide some thoughts to get you started, and ask some provocative questions. You get to answer them.
There are implications for society, for politics, and for morality. There are issues of religion, of civil rights, and for electoral math. Let’s talk.
In an era in which politicians often struggle to say the most bland and inoffensive things, the President came out with a bold and controversial statement. Or did he? Polls for the last decade have been steadily moving in this direction, toward greater acceptance of same-sex marriage. Yes, there are those who will disapprove of the President’s position. But does he have a majority (or at least a plurality) behind him? Is it really that controversial anymore?
Are American politicians are becoming increasingly bland? Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum were anything but restrained in their extremism. But then they lost, and Mitt Romney has been a perfect pander bear in his drive to say what the group he’s with wants to hear. So, was the President’s statement brave, or nothing unusual?
Interestingly, this is one topic on which Mitt hasn’t been wishy-washy. On the topic of same-sex marriage, Mitt insists this is one area he will never reconsider. He’s opposed, completely, unshakingly, unquiveringly. Will that help him or hurt him? Or will he soon start equivocating despite his previous statements of unwavering principle?
In the past couple of weeks, there’s been a confluence of events: a senior Romney operative who may have been encouraged to resign for the crime of RWG (Republican While Gay). Vice President Biden expressed support for same-sex marriage in public. (Was that a trial balloon? Weigh in on the idea.) North Carolina enacted a doubly-unnecessary anti-rights amendment that will restrict a whole bunch of things — but not gay marriage, since that was already illegal in North Carolina.
And yesterday, the President came out. So to speak, anyway…he said same-sex couples should have the same rights as mixed-gender couples. Is all this coincidence? Was any of it orchestrated? Put on your tinfoil hat.
Does it make sense to keep putting civil rights up to a popular vote? Would blacks have ever obtained equal rights in the United States if we had done that? Would they still be slaves? What do you think?
Is the President’s statement going to affect the November elections? Will it drive his opponents to the polls, or fire up his supporters? Will gay Republicans consider whether they prefer a President who supports their rights, even if he differs with them on other issues…or one who wants to deny them? Will President Obama lose any votes, or any states, that he would otherwise have won? Will the support of gay-rights groups push him over the top in any states? Will gay rights groups think of this as too little, too late?
What are the moral implications? Did the morality of the nation suffer when women were given the vote, or when it became legal everywhere for a black man to marry a white woman? Are these analogies appropriate, or are the rights of homosexuals somehow different altogether?
Does this infringe on anyone’s religious rights? No one has recommended that churches who are opposed to same-sex marriage should be forced to perform them. But is it possible that the law could move in that direction? Would we need a different Supreme Court before such a question even needs to be asked?
Or is all of this too much noise over nothing? Does the opinion of the President on this really make much difference? Does anyone think the President will actively campaign on this issue, will make it into a major election-year issue, or will construct major policy on this point? Does this presage a second-term drive to repeal DOMA?
Will the Republican opposition make this into a major election-year issue? If they do, will this energize 18-to-35-year-olds to vote against them? Will Republican voter ID laws make it more difficult for those 18-to-35-year-olds to vote anyway? What will the Independents think? Is anyone enough of a single-issue voter for this to matter?
What about the media? Acceptance of same-sex relationships has been a rising theme on TV and in the movies. Is the media in the tank for gays? What will this mean for all that Citizens United money that’s going to be spent trying to make people very afraid of same-sex marriage?
And why should anyone be afraid of same-sex marriage? Are mixed-gender marriages so weak that happy same-sex couples will be a threat to someone else’s happiness? Is that irrelevant — is same-sex marriage just morally wrong?
At moments when a historic even occurs, there always are more questions than answers. What questions have I missed?
Related articles
Obama says he supports same-sex marriage(whitehouse.blogs.cnn.com)
The President’s Marriage Announcement(thedailybeast.com)
Obama: ‘I think same-sex couples should be able to get married’(firstread.msnbc.msn.com)
Obama first U.S. president to back same-sex marriage(ctv.ca)
President Barack Obama: Same-sex marriage should be legal, in his opinion(wjla.com)
Obama Finally & Belatedly ‘Mans Up’ On Same-Sex Marriage(themoderatevoice.com)
Mitt Romney reaffirms opposition to gay marriage(abcnews.go.com)
- Obama backs same-sex marriage (dailystar.com.lb)
- Romney says his views on same-sex marriage haven’t changed (politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com)

This entry was posted by dcpetterson on May 10, 2012 at 3:00 am, and is filed under Uncategorized. Follow any responses to this post through RSS 2.0.You can leave a response or trackback from your own site.
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“While seeking the US Senate seat in 1994, Mitt Romney wrote a letter to a gay rights group known as the Log Cabin Club claiming that he supported full equality for America’s gay and lesbian citizens. He claimed that even though his opponent — Senator Ted Kennedy — was an ardent supporter of gay rights, he would be more effective in moving the issue into the main stream of American concern.”
Re: mittens statement to the press yesterday ~ one word ~ nuanced.
>
In politics, bottom line, if “they’re” taking about about your opponent, they’re not talking about you.
It’s better to be talked about than not talked about at all. ~ Oscar Wilde
mittens is an exception to the rule.
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#3 written by mclever 1 year ago
Too many questions, DC.

Since Gallup shows that 57% of Independents now support the right for gays to marry, I don’t think this will hurt Obama as much as it might have four years ago. His support for gay marriage is more likely to stir up those on the opposition side, but they’re the same people who were already frothing with hatred for the liberal/socialist/Kenyan/Muslim in the White House. If Republicans make too big of an issue out of it, it could stir up the under 35 vote who are strongly pro-rights for gays. However, I see this as more of a side-show to the real debate on economics and jobs, which is probably part of why Obama felt safe making the statement now. I doubt it will significantly alter the Electoral result in any state, though it may increase the margins in some of the more politically extreme ones.
The other thing to consider is that Obama wasn’t going to be let off the hook this time around. His “my views are evolving” side-step wasn’t going to work this year. In several states, the local parties have included marriage equality as a plank on the party platform (definitely here in Iowa, for example). With that level of ground support, it seems destined to make it on the national party platform, either that or Obama’d have to come up with a good argument for why not. Since there isn’t a good argument for denying rights, he was going to end up running on a platform with marriage equality on it, so might as well get it out there now and get the political fallout over with early. That’s my tinfoil take on what the behind-the-scenes politics might have been that led up to Obama making his “Breaking News!” statement. -
#4 written by mclever 1 year ago
Oh, and I don’t think Biden was a deliberate trial balloon. I think it’s more likely that there’ve been discussions recently–perhaps as Obama discussed with his campaign managers how to handle some of the planks coming up through the party–and the White House’s evolving views on gay rights were part of that discussion. Then, someone put a microphone in front of Biden, and he says whatever comes to mind first.
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#5 written by Max 1 year ago
mc,
Naaaaaa.
This was a part of a deliberate plan. I see Plouffe’s handwriting all over it.
Friday: Biden’s MTP interview taped.
Sunday: Interview aired.
Monday: Duncan’s interview.
Tuesday: NC vote, as expected passing Amendment 1.
Wednesday: Obama’s interview, landing on the positive side of current opinion.
Gentle rollout. No great pushback from indies. President’s statement.
All a progression. Well played. -
What happened? Harry Truman was fond of quoting Mark Twain: “When in doubt, do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.” Now and then, politicians have a “goddammit” moment. Obama’s position had clearly shifted on the issue (who was he kidding with his talk of having “evolved” but being unwilling to make news?), and there was never going to be a better time to make the switch than now–at least not while he is certain to be a non-lame-duck president.
So Obama decided it’s worth a roll of the dice to make history. Which is what he has done.
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#7 written by rgbact 1 year ago
This was a part of a deliberate plan. I see Plouffe’s handwriting all over it.
Too much of a coincidence that it got going right after a bad jobs report. I’m pretty sure if we had gained 300K jobs, we wouldn’t be discussing gay marriage right now.As for the issue, I will say there probably is no other issue that I can remember on which the MSM is so unified in support and out of step with the rest of America. I suspect alot of the polling improvement is from media’s “the debate is over” coverage of the issue. It’ll be interesting whether it ends up being yet another passing youth fad (like Obama himself), or whether the trends in support continue. One things for sure, if the pro-pot lobby was anywhere near as savvy and had anywhere near the favorable media, we’d have alot more states with lax drug laws.
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#9 written by Mainer 1 year ago
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#10 written by rgbact 1 year ago
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#11 written by clmbusboy1 1 year ago
I find that when you are wondering the motive of a situation, go to the most popular answer, money. I think the President’s donor base needed a spark. Case in point: I believe he raked in 1M in the first 90 minutes after the announcement.
I think electorally this is basically a wash. Though I personally don’t believe the polls on this issue. Being anti-gay is not PC. So someone who is asked this in a poll is not as likely to be forthcoming with the truth. While the NC ballot measure from Tuesday had some caveats, a 3:2 passage may be a better indicator.
Lastly, the Obama campaign is as good as it gets. They know they win almost every issue that doesn’t revolve around the economy. The more talk about war on women, dogs, SSM, and college loans, etc, the better it is for team Obama. -
To a great extent you’re right, clmbusboy1. But increasingly, the President is winning on the economy, too.
We’ve had over two years of uninterrupted economic growth. We’re hiring in the manufacturing sector for the first time since the 1990’s. The unemployment rate is falling, and is now nearly down to 8%. We’ve had over four million jobs created in a shade over two years — more than four times as many as Bush managed in eight years. The DOW has roughly doubled its value since March of 2009, which means 401(k)‘s and retirement accounts are looking a LOT better. Home foreclosures are slowing, and housing starts are up.
Plus, voters remember that Republicans want to give big tax breaks to the wealthy, and they balked at extending the FICA tax holiday for the middle class. Republicans blocked the American Jobs Act. Republicans are blocking the extension of low interest rates on student loans. Republicans want to cut back on Pell grants.
On nearly every economic indicator you name, the economy is improving. On every aspect of economic issues, the Republicans are on the wrong side of what affects middle-class Americans.
Even the economy is a good issue for the President. Just watch.
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#14 written by clmbusboy1 1 year ago
DC, when I said Obama loses economic issues, I meant with the general public, not with those on the extreme left. There may be something more recent, but this is the latest gallup poll regarding the economy. 59% disapproval to 38% approval is what I meant by losing issues economy related.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/152543/Obama-Economic-Approval-Rating-Improves.aspx
Please reread my comment. Your reference to Osama is what I meant by Obama winning almost every non-economic issue. Thanks for proving my point.
I don’t want to drag myself into a discussion about good and bad economic numbers as I don’t have the time to do so. But your citing of the current 8% unemployment does not tell the entire employment story in any way. If you want to fool yourself into believing 92% of the country is satisfied with their current employment conditions, well, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Sorry, it’s a rough subject for me as I know too many people un/under employed, whether counted or not. (And please do not take this as me saying Obama is skewing the numbers. He is not. That is the way UE has always been reported. I just think it only tells part of the problem.)
Another point, didn’t the Rs want to extend the payroll tax cut for a whole year and the Ds only wanted it for 2 months (which was what passed in the end). But I may be remembering that issue poorly. Please correct me if I have that one wrong. -
#15 written by mclever 1 year ago
@clmbusboy1
I think Obama *can* win the economic argument, if he decides to start making his case publicly and often. Even today, after a less-than-stellar jobs report for April, almost every other economic indicator continues to show steady improvement. Obama can point to his failed Jobs act and Republican obstructionism as a reason why the jobs are lagging. Not saying everyone will agree, but that the argument can be made to voters, especially to independents. Considering Romney’s “let ‘em fail” attitude towards American auto makers, I’m not sure that’s a winning issue for him, especially in the “rust belt” area.
You point out people’s unhappiness with the economy, but it’s also important to note who they blame for the current situation. Majorities still blame GWB for the current mess, though blame has been gradually shifting towards Obama. Even so, voters still are most confident in Obama’s ability to handle the economy. Keep in mind that many on the left are “unhappy” with the economy, but they definitely blame the GOP House and filibustering Senators rather than Obama. So, the real question is who gets the blame. -
#17 written by Armchair Warlord 1 year ago
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Another point, didn’t the Rs want to extend the payroll tax cut for a whole year and the Ds only wanted it for 2 months (which was what passed in the end). But I may be remembering that issue poorly. Please correct me if I have that one wrong.
Okay, here’s the correction
Republicans only wanted to extend the payroll tax cut if they got a laundry list of far-right agenda items. Democrats wanted a clean bill, paid for by a tiny tax increase on the most wealthy. Republicans refused, and they punted for two months over the Christmas/ New Year recess. When they came came back, the passed the one-year extension that the Democrats wanted, instead of the social engineering wishlist that the Republicans wanted.
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#19 written by rgbact 1 year ago
Another point, didn’t the Rs want to extend the payroll tax cut for a whole year and the Ds only wanted it for 2 months (which was what passed in the end).
Technically you’re right, but I suspect neither side really wanted to do it, and it turned into a big game of chicken so that the GOP got blamed for putting strings on their cut, like putting conditions on unemployment checks. So in the end, as usual, all sides agreed to put off making any decision that might possibly annoy a voter until next January. -
#20 written by mclever 1 year ago
I just want to add that fundamental rights should almost never be subject to opinion polls and majority votes, because the tyranny of the majority would almost always steamroll the discriminated minority.
Yeah, if civil rights were put to a vote, women still wouldn’t have the right and blacks might only count as 3⁄5 of a person. Thank goodness we’ve had forward looking Courts who’ve been able to make rational rulings based on fairness rather than favoritism.
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#21 written by mostlyilurk 1 year ago
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#22 written by WA7th 1 year ago
This benefits Obama indirectly to the small extent that Romney gets testy whenever he’s asked about it.
Too little too late for the gay-rights community? MMMmmmaybe, but that depends on having realistic expectations of them in the first place. I do think that some of them would have stayed home, and will now go vote in November, but I think that will be a small effect anyway. On the other hand I don’t buy into the idea that this will make blacks and Mexicans stay home. I think this may be slightly better than a wash electorally, but only because those opposed to this issue would have already been opposed to Obama for other reasons. I don’t see how Obama’s coming out on this issue provides a tipping point against him with any group of voters.
It helps Obama in indirectly by clarifying the optics of the race for everyone. For his race it at least takes the issue off his plate and puts it on Romney’s in an unwelcome way. It also helps clarify the optics for other races down the ballot. In my state’s governor’s race, the Republican candidate can now no longer deflect the question of his opposition to same-sex marriage by saying “I agree with President who is from your party but agrees with my party. Next question.” That’s better news than nothing for the invisible Dem candidate who doesn’t even seem to be interested in campaigning for the race at all.
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cbb1
May 9, 2012
“In the AP-GfK poll, Americans give Obama an edge over Romney on numerous attributes, but handling the economy is a key exception. The public is divided over whether Obama or Romney would do a better job on the issue that strategists say will dominate the fall election. Forty-six percent prefer Obama on this topic, and 44 percent prefer Romney.”
So it’s currently a wash …
take care
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#24 written by mclever 1 year ago
@mostlyilurk
…in light of the Loving v. Virginia opinion, I don’t see how the SCOTUS could uphold a ban on same-sex marriage, if (when?) it decides to hear the issue.
There’ve been a few cases percolating up through the courts, but SCOTUS has been very reluctant to hear them. Which do you think will get there first, DOMA or CA Prop 8 appeals? My understanding is that some of the Prop 8 opponents don’t want it to go all the way to SCOTUS, because they’re content with a state-by-state win for now. The thinking seems to be that they’re afraid of a negative ruling if they try to push it national, but I’m not so sure about that. Kennedy is the swing vote, and his opinion for Romer v. Evans seems to suggest that he would be amenable to arguments about laws that target a protected class.
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#25 written by rgbact 1 year ago
It also helps clarify the optics for other races down the ballot.
That may work fine for Dems in WA, but what about all those other states. Dems are down to mostly just governors on the coasts and have alot of moderate senators up this year. Keep in mind, the Dem NC guv is quitting (and I believe the WA one is too) rather than run again. Moderate Dems are going extinct. -
Dems are down to mostly just governors on the coasts
And in Minnesota, in the heart of the Midwest. And soon possibly in Wisconsin.
Moderate Dems are going extinct.
Actually, nearly all Democrats in government are moderates. Tom Harkin is one of a handful of exceptions. You meant to say that conservative Democrats are mostly gone.
On the other hand, there are only about three moderate Republicans left. We’re even losing Lugar, who is about as far right as Harkin is to the left, and is one of the few remaining Republicans who is today considered “moderate”.
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#27 written by Max 1 year ago
As for the issue, I will say there probably is no other issue that I can remember on which the MSM is so unified in support and out of step with the rest of America. I suspect alot of the polling improvement is from media’s “the debate is over” coverage of the issue. It’ll be interesting whether it ends up being yet another passing youth fad (like Obama himself), or whether the trends in support continue. One things for sure, if the pro-pot lobby was anywhere near as savvy and had anywhere near the favorable media, we’d have alot more states with lax drug laws.
Absolutely! Right on, rgbact! And the same is true for civil rights!!!
Why if it hadn’t been for that MSM covering all them outside agitators down South in the early 60’s, them darkies still would be ridin’ in the back of the bus and not miscegenatin’ with white folk.
And if we still had the poll tax„ all them coloreds damn shore wouldn’t all be votin’ together which caused us our current misfortune of havin’ one of them nigras in the WHITE House!
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#29 written by mostlyilurk 1 year ago
Mclever,
I’m not sure where the cases are in the pipeline so it’s hard to say what will go to the Supremes when. Also, it’s up to them to grant or deny cert, so who knows when they’ll feel compelled to address the question. I haven’t looked at the Kennedy case you linked but I think Loving would put the matter to rest. As I’m writing this, I’m realizing that I’d be interested to see if Loving has been addressed in any of the pending cases on the issue. When I get a few free minutes, I may check it out. -
#30 written by mclever 1 year ago
@mostlyilurk
The Romer v. Evans case (if I understand correctly) involved a Colorado Constitutional Amendment that would ban and invalidate any anti-discrimination laws in the state. Kennedy came down pretty hard on the un-Constitutionality of such a ban, and the reasoning in the most recent appeal of Prop 8 seemed (to my legally inexperienced reading) to echo Kennedy’s reasoning, perhaps setting the stage for a SCOTUS argument down the road. I’d love to hear your own take on things, and I look forward to your analysis of any applications of Loving so far in these cases. -
#31 written by mclever 1 year ago
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#33 written by Max 1 year ago
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#34 written by rgbact 1 year ago
Absolutely! Right on, rgbact! And the same is true for civil rights!!!
We shall see where the social norms go. It could be the media is leading on an area of social progress.…or they are once again trying to push the values of Hollywood and Manhattan on a huge country that increasingly sees media as totally out of touch with its values and flees to alternatives. I put my money on the impending death of the MSM. This election may be the final nail. They’re chasing us all to Fox. -
#36 written by lind 1 year ago
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#37 written by Mainer 1 year ago
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About dcpetterson (187 posts)
D. C. Petterson is a novelist and a software consultant in Minnesota who has been writing science fiction since the age of six. He is the author of A Melancholy Humour, Rune Song and Still Life. He lives with his wife, two dogs, two cats, and a lizard, and insists that grandchildren are the reward for having survived teenagers. When not writing stories or software, he plays guitar and piano, engages in political debate, and reads a lot of history and physics texts—for fun. Follow on Twitter @dcpetterson





The oversight of civil contracts between competent adult citizens is one of the prime functions of a government, and as such, that government should NOT discriminate against any of it’s citizens, Civil marriage is nothing more than a contract, with it’s requirements already spelled out by government.
Religious organizations can, and do, spell out requirements for members to marry under their auspices. They can continue as they always have.
Besides, why should straight couples be the only ones able to enjoy the pleasures of Divorce Court?