Mean Girls
Remember over last year or two, how Republicans repeatedly threatened financial disaster? Like high school drama queens in some teenage soap opera, they manufactured one crisis after another. We’re on the verge of another series of showdowns. Get your scorecards ready.
We had the debate over extending the Bush tax cuts at the end of 2010. Republicans insisted we needed to maintain those tax cuts, especially for the wealthy, or else in a fit of piqué the spoiled rich kids would pick up their marbles and stop creating jobs. Part of the deal for extending the cuts included expansions of Pell grants for college students and a temporary reduced payroll tax for America’s working people.
Then, in April of 2011, America found itself on the verge of a government shutdown. 800,000 federal workers came within a hair’s breadth of being temporarily out of work. The spending appropriations finally passed, after an unnecessary soap-opera-like drama. Then we had the debt ceiling debate the following summer. Republican reluctance to raise the debt limit to finance the spending they’d already approved resulted in the first-ever downgrade of the US credit rating. The eventual deal included the creation of a “Supercommittee” charged with finding nearly two trillion dollars in additional debt reduction.
The Supercommittee failed, due to Republicans refusal to consider even one dime in additional taxes. (Thank you, Grover Norquist, the de facto czar of America’s tax policy.) This means we have massive automatic budget cuts set to kick in beginning in January.
Many of these bad deals are coming back to haunt us. The sequel approaches.
Witness the foreshadowing: at the end of 2011, the payroll tax holiday expired. Republicans displayed a strange reluctance to extend this temporary tax cut for the middle class, without attaching a Christmas-bag full of far-right social agenda wishlist items. President Obama stared them down, and Congress passed a two-month extension. Then in February of this year, Congress enacted a relatively clean further extension until the end of 2012, ending a convulsion of irrational drama and angst, which had been created simply to oppose the President.
The pattern will continue. At the end of this year, a number of things are scheduled to happen. They will all be fodder for high drama.
- The payroll tax holiday again expires. We can expect there to be another fight on whether to extend it yet again. Oddly, Republicans don’t seem as happy about this tax cut as they are with cuts for the immensely wealthy. Part of the payroll tax deal involved extensions to Pell grants. Expect Republicans to put their opposition to education on display by seeking to make cuts to this program.
- The debt ceiling is going to be reached again in the spring of 2013, and must be raised sometime before that. House Speaker John Boehner has already signaled that he’s going to dig in his heels and demand massive spending cuts and tax cuts as blackmail for allowing America to pay its bills.
- The Bush tax cuts, extended at the end of 2010, will again expire at the end of 2012. These tax cuts are estimated to cost over $300 billion annually. For some reason, Republicans who claim to be concerned about the deficit insist on extending these tax cuts. Boehner says this will be part of his demands for raising the debt ceiling again.
- The automatic spending cuts resulting from the failure of the Supercommittee are scheduled to kick in beginning January of 2013. These cuts are split between military and domestic spending. Republicans in the House are making plans to prevent the military cuts from taking place, and to substitute even more domestic cuts in their place. (The point of splitting the cuts between military and domestic spending was to do things neither Republicans nor Democrats like, thus encouraging compromise in the Supercommittee. Republicans apparently don’t think they need to compromise, despite their earlier agreement.)
- The fiscal 2012 year ends October 1, and spending for fiscal 2013 has to be approved. Last year we nearly had a government shutdown in the battle over spending. Does anyone expect there to be more comity in an election year?
- House Republicans intend to tie all of the above issues to a demand for additional tax cuts, which of course will increase the deficit still more unless additional spending cuts are also enacted. Expect more Tea Party antics and demands for Greek-style austerity measures to be implemented here.
- Speaker Boehner is signalling that cuts to Social Security (which has nothing whatever to do with the deficit) and Medicare are in the works, and will be part of the demands he intends to make this fall while assembling all of the above issues into a single enormous fiscal nightmare.
Many of these issues could be addressed in a lame-duck session after the elections. Some can wait until the new Congress is sworn in next year. Of course, putting off hard choices is not necessarily a good thing — but creating partisan talking points in an election year in preference to sane governance isn’t much better.
It seems to me that forcing all of these issues before the election — all except spending priorities for fiscal 2013, which is the one that actually has a hard deadline before December 31 — is an act of desperation. Boehner and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell have both said that defeating President Obama is their single greatest priority. We should take them at their word. The coming crises they will manufacture in this election year are all intended to advance that one goal.
The rhetoric we’ll hear about balancing the budget or reducing the debt is belied by the conflicting and contradictory insistence on further tax cuts, coupled with spending cuts to programs that don’t affect the deficit, or that don’t contribute to it with any significance. This is about social engineering and political posturing, masquerading as fiscal responsibility.
Republicans have reduced themselves to a society of Mean Girls whose only reason for being is to do bad things to the despised new kid, heedless of the destruction and pain and damage they cause. It doesn’t have to be this way.
It’s time we start electing people who put country before politics. Enough of the drama queens. Let’s make this November the time that America demanded its elected representatives start governing again. As if some of them were adults.
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Related articles
John Boehner Says The Debt Limit is an “Action Forcing Event”(inquisitr.com)
Boehner: No Higher Taxes In Lame-Duck Debt Limit Fight(tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com)
House Speaker Refuses to Raise U.S. Debt Ceiling(fox8.com)
Boehner: Spending cuts must top debt ceiling increase — CNN(money.cnn.com)
- Boehner: Cuts Must Offset Debt Ceiling (myfoxorlando.com)

This entry was posted by dcpetterson on May 16, 2012 at 3:00 am, and is filed under Economy. Follow any responses to this post through RSS 2.0.You can leave a response or trackback from your own site.
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#3 written by parksie555 1 year ago
Right. Those silly voters. If they disagree with my worldview they must have been deceived by those evil Republicans. It can’t possibly be that they actually believe in things like balanced budgets, or actually making public sector employees contribute to their own health and pension plans (the horror!).
We know that good Democrats never, ever use propaganda or try to engage the emotions of voters. -
#4 written by rgbact 1 year ago
We know that good Democrats never, ever use propaganda or try to engage the emotions of voters.
Yeah, “War on Women” sure wasn’t meant to play on emotions. And “War on Gays.….and War on Romney’s dog and War on Bullying. /sarc
Let’s make this November the time that America demanded its elected representatives start governing again. As if some of them were adults.
Well, tell Obama to start running a campaign for adults then. Free birth control, appearances on Fallon and the View, “historic” pronouncements on gay marriage. Its the MTV presidency. I actually have a big problem with the GOP reneging on the military auto cuts.….so why doesn’t Obama or any Dem speak on this instead of constant diversions to “non-adult” topics? And now you’re blaiming the GOP for not being serious when its obvious the Dems are running a weekly diversion campaign
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parksie and rgbact, of course Democrats also use manipulative techniques. I merely said that Republicans were better at it.
The self-contradictory nature of Republican propaganda, and the fact that they keep shifting their positions based on what the President says (the “individual mandate” is the classic case in point), shows they don’t seriously believe their own rhetoric.
Any voter who buys their nonsense deserves what they get. Unfortunately, the rest of the nation might end up with it, too.
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#6 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
“of course Democrats also use manipulative techniques“
Some of it goes beyond manipulative and borders on downright dangerous — http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougschoen/2012/05/14/the-obama-white-house-enemies-list/ -
shilohbuster
beyond manipulative and borders on downright dangerous
I see the boogeyman meme started by fixednoise has totally fooled shilohbuster …
Shocking shilohbuster would be sucked in so easily! Be afraid, be very afraid conservative billionaires.
btw, Vandersloot is an outright bigot!
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hmm, ‘shocking shilohbuster’ sounds like a good song title. And p555, who flies in every now and then w/his childish snark ~ also shocking!
Keep hope alive little buddy (5) mos. out … -
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#9 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
Yes, nothing more comforting than having The Impartial Media Mistress herself in Rachel Maddow telling us gently, “Move along. There’s nothing to see here.“
Maddow suffers from the same brand of delusion that DC and many others on the Left are afflicted with in that their default position every time they see what appears to be bullying, underhanded, propagandizing, and/or corrupt tactics by Republicans/conservatives, there’s nothing more to the story because WE KNOW FOR A FACT that they are dirty, underhanded goons; on the other hand, when they see what appears to be bullying, underhanded, propagandizing, and/or corrupt tactics by Democrats/liberals, there’s more to the story (usually just conservative paranoia) because WE KNOW FOR A FACT that they are NOT dirty, underhanded goons, thus their behavior is justifiable.
The Obama Administration has kept alive (dialed back some but intensified others) much of the Bush-era surveillance and spying on private US citizens, which has led to dwindling individual liberty at the expense of an Executive Branch growing in power, and we have seen Obama brazenly speak out against conservative media members (did this aplenty early on but not as much lately) in public and brazenly talk down the Supreme Court in a major speech, so don’t dismiss something like smearing top Romney donors as No Big Thing, even if the language describe it is a little bit gussied up in evoking Nixon’s “Enemies Lisst.” -
Re: p555’s snark, there has been (2) and only two successful recall of state governors in the history of America. So it’s interesting Walker, with a 10 to 1 er 20 to 1 $$$ advantage is only up by 4 pts.
Are the Republicans still sweating bullets in Wisconsin? Rhetorical
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Speaking of enemies lists … ok, ok, I won’t mention shilohbuster’s ~ As I leave for good (seriously, this time!!), Here’s my Most Despised List!:
Seriously, I won’t mention it lol.
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And shilohbuster attacks the messenger, Rachel, and not the factual message … again shocking! Also interesting shilohbuster is turning into a pretzel re: his “false equivalency” discussion w/dc. Not shocking, but interesting.
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#11 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
“It’s an absurd comparison. President Obama’s campaign revealing the list of Romney donors is not the same as Nixonian dirty tricks and underhanded (and illegal) destruction.
It’s a completely false equivalence.“
No, it’s NOT a “completely false equivalence” because I’m not making any comparison of Obama having a list of enemies to the specific “dirty tricks and underhanded (illegal) destruction” you speak of by Nixon.” I’m simply comparing the fact that Nixon had a list and Obama appears to be compiling one in a manner reminiscent to that. We’ll see what Obama does with it; while doubtful it’ll be anything that stooped as low as Watergate, it’s not a good precedent, no matter how you slice it.
But you’ve once again caricaturized my argument to suggest I’ve said something I clearly didn’t say. -
#12 written by rgbact 1 year ago
Mule–
Story in Politico today about some random person used in Romney campaign ad that has a criminal record. You can bet the “scoop“came right from Obama campaign digging into personal records. You better not have bullied anyone in high school and even think about speaking out against Obama. -
Mule, we’ve been through these false equivalences before. This “everybody does it” meme, the idea that “there’s enough blame to go around” is almost always advanced by the people who are most (or even exclusively) at fault, but are trying to shift the guilt to someone else. Tu quoque arguments are nothing but an admission of wrongdoing.
There is nothing in the last hundred years of American politics even remotely comparable to the crimes of Richard Nixon and his cronies.
But conservatives have used this technique before. In the opposite direction: trying to evoke the gravity and importance of the American Revolution with the completely absurd notion that somehow opposition to a market-based reform of insurance companies was comparable to an epic struggle for liberty.
Republican marketing is almost always way over the top. They’re very good at false analogies and hyperbolic panic and absurd equivalences. (I now expect some of our conservative friends to prove me correct by attempting to prove me wrong. Go ahead, draw a few more false comparisons for us.)
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#14 written by rgbact 1 year ago
Re: p555’s snark, there has been <b><i>(2) and only two</i></b> successful recall of state governors in the history of Americ
Has there ever been a recall attempt where the recallee got a bigger margin than they did in the last election? What’s the record for least successful recall election ever? -
It’s a nice deflection though, to turn the conversation away from the Republican perfidy and almost traitorously destructive acts regarding the economy, and try to make it about how evil it is for Democrats to reveal Republican wrongdoing or Republican donors.
Do you or do you not agree that Republicans are going to make another circus out of the economic discussions I outlined in my article?
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#16 written by shortchain 1 year ago
Apparently, Mule objects to the White House keeping a list of big donors to Mitt Romney and making it public. As for me, I’d be more concerned if, like Nixon, they kept it secret…
Or perhaps Mule and rgbact object to the public finding out about who donates big to Romney’s campaign. As for me, I’m interested in knowing the big donors to both campaigns.
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#18 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
“Mule, we’ve been through these false equivalences before. This “everybody does it” meme, the idea that “there’s enough blame to go around” is almost always advanced by the people who are most (or even exclusively) at fault, but are trying to shift the guilt to someone else. Tu quoque arguments are nothing but an admission of wrongdoing.“
And if you had a clue, you’d realize that’s NOT what’s going on here. What Nixon did was 40 years ago, was very wrong (compiling the list and any subsequent destructive acts), and I’m NOT defending it. Hence your “tu quoque” accusation is INVALID, as it usually is.
The point is that compiling lists of your political opponents in this manner is wrong and sends a bad message. Obviously you can expound upon and double-down on that wrongness (as Nixon did whereas Obama seemingly hasn’t), but the parallels of each compiling a political enemies list is striking. However, I’m NOT equating anything else Nixon did or may have done to anything Obama’s done.
Maybe an analogy would help. We know these two guys, Bert and Ernie, that live way out in the sticks. They don’t live very close to each other and don’t even know each other for that matter, but we have the chance of observing each’s behavior. We notice, over the course of several months, Bert begins to stockpile weapons and ammo, the kind of stuff used in war not just hunting rifles and handguns for self-defense. It’s a little troubling but he’s buying the weaponry through legal means and appears to keep to himself. Then one day, Bert comes storming into town, armed to the hilt, and shoots up an entire neighborhood, killing 5 and wounding 10 others. Bert’s tried for murder, sent to prison for life, etc. etc. Some years later we see Ernie begin stockpiling weaponry in much the same manner did some years back. Now, he is yet to show any indication he’s going to use that weaponry for evil deeds, but he’s sure getting enough ammo that he could, and his actions are very reminiscent of Bert years ago.
I’m not making a comparison by saying or suggesting Ernie has or will go on a shooting rampage as Bert; however, I’m rightfully and accurately pointing out that both men stockpiled an alarming array of weaponry — far more than they would ever need for hunting or self-defense — and that it’s not the kind of behavior you see very often and has tended to lead towards Bad Things.
Diismiss it all you want. I don’t care. I’ve come to expect such a maddening level of partisanship from someone as blind and delusional as yourself. -
I’m simply comparing the fact that Nixon had a list and Obama appears to be compiling one in a manner reminiscent to that.
When I go to the local grocery store, I have a shopping list. Just like Nixon’s enemies list, it’s a list.
You’re making an absurd comparison.
So, do you think Republicans will again attempt to shut down the government? Will their drama-queen tactics go that far once again, or will they consider techniques like negotiation and compromise? — in other words, actually attempt to govern rather than merely to score political cheap shots?
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The point is that compiling lists of your political opponents in this manner is wrong and sends a bad message.
And this is precisely an example of a false equivalence. Revealing the political donors in the wake of Citizens United is not the same as compiling an “enemies list.”
Do you think that tax cuts or Social Security cuts should be demanded as a precondition to raising the debt ceiling in 2013?
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#22 written by dawolf 1 year ago
I find it interesting the effort of distraction that is going on in this thread.
Going to the main point of the thread: yes, it is pretty obvious that the Republican Congress will again try to make as much sound and fury as possible, and hang the consequences. No effort to actually govern.
I think what they are doing is basically an attempt to move the Overton Window. -
#23 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
“Apparently, Mule objects to the White House keeping a list of big donors to Mitt Romney and making it public. As for me, I’d be more concerned if, like Nixon, they kept it secret…“
Depends on what their intent is in compiling it. If it’s to smear/harass/intimidate or infringe on these people in some other way, whether by using the government vehicle or stoking anger among the public, then it’s a disgrace. If it’s for “just so you know” purposes, then I have no problem with it. My hunch is that it’s not 100% one way or the other — either compiling names for insidious means or a completely innocent release of public information — but I certainly believe the dial is more towards the smear/harass/intimidate end of the spectrum than the innocent release of public records end of the spectrum.
But I’m getting near the end of what I have to say here because I find it extremely useless to argue with a bunch of Obama apologists about sketchy behavior like this that will invariably be twisted into No Big Deal. I get it, Democrats/liberals are good, Republicans/conservatives are evil. Not sure why you don’t just post that every time with a little QED at the end and it’ll save us all the hassle of poring over, dissecting, translating, and responding to a ton of verbose posts that make the same point over and over again. -
I find it interesting the effort of distraction that is going on in this thread.
I think that’s much like another point I only briefly mentioned in the main article. The primary reason for all the sound and fury of these dramatic manufactured crises is to stir up excitement and anger — because Republicans know they will otherwise lose, and lose big. They’re desperate.
It think that’s also the reason for the attempts at deflection and subject-change. Our conservative friends here know that there is no excuse, no defense for the partisan antics of the Republican Party. The effort to destroy the President at any cost — hang the consequences for the nation! — has no defense, no excuse, not even any reason or rationality.
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#26 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
This place is completely bereft of substance when Michael and mclever aren’t around. I’m out for now as I refuse to engage any further with a slew of ideological hacks/partisans with the mental make-up and emotional stability of a group of pre-teen girls.
Cue the pot-shots of me being the ideological hack, damn the fact that I’m the one exhibiting a healthy skepticism of Executive Power no matter who’s in office and you guys are the ones putting blind faith in Executive Power and The Government so long as it appears to mostly reflect your brand. -
#27 written by dawolf 1 year ago
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Mule,
Some of it goes beyond manipulative and borders on downright dangerous — http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougschoen/2012/05/14/the-obama-white-house-enemies-list/
I draw a pretty big distinction between Nixon’s list and Obama’s list. No, it’s not that the lists themselves are especially different, but the list wasn’t the problem. Nixon used the FBI to investigate these people, and file false criminal charges against them. If Obama is doing something similar, it’s certainly not mentioned in the article (though I’d find it equally reprehensible if he’s doing that). Focusing on the existence of a list is the “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” model of distraction to create false equivalences.
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Mule,
But you’ve once again caricaturized my argument to suggest I’ve said something I clearly didn’t say.
In essence, you did say it. You gave very little structure around the link you provided to the article. Absent any text from you to the contrary, readers of your comment are left to conclude that you agreed with the point of the linked article, which was that the Obama list is equivalent to the Nixon list.
Perhaps that’s not what you meant, but that’s how it appeared.
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#32 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
“Focusing on the existence of a list is the “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” model of distraction to create false equivalences.“
Maybe so, but for me the question turns immediately to, if Obama is above the fray and is the big uniter, nice gay, play-it-straight, etc. politician most of his supporters claim, what is the motivation for developing a list like this? What “good purpose” does it serve?
Like I said, I don’t believe his motivation is 100% malice, but there’s a spectrum here, and I damn sure don’t believe it’s 100% innocent either. And I get sick of the insinuation by some (not you necessarily) that he’s some choir boy who would never resort to bullying/intimidation/smear tactics. That’s patently false. -
#33 written by rgbact 1 year ago
Unfortunately, I don’t think our conservative friends have an answer to your questions.
To what? The fact that Senate has no budget for 3+ years and Obama is doing record amounts of fundraisers, yet you think its time for the GOP to get serious about actually governing? The fact that Obama has offered no opinion on Simpson Bowles but does nationally televised interviews with Robin Roberts to discuss his “tough” and ” historic” policy decisions as related to gay marriage? The fact that the debt ceiling expiration was specifically negotiated so as to get Obama thru Nov? Pray tell.…who’s doing the diversions from governance here and do you really think accusing people of doing what your side is actually wallowing in will fool people? -
shilohbuster
Cue the pot-shots of me being the ideological hack
Actually ideological hacks, like yourself, are the majority at most political blogs. Whereas some smallish blogs do have actual substantive discussion on many issues.
Indeed, being an ideological hack doesn’t make shilohbuster unique. What makes him unique lol is his longgg childish history at 538.com, refugees and here over the past 4⁄5 years.
ie shilohbuster’s continual/ad nauseam unequivocal pronouncements that he’s leaving for good only to sheepishly return moments later like a homeless pup.
MW
It would be nice if you could keep your comments free of personal attacks.
Interesting personal attacks by shilohbuster don’t seem to bother you.
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#35 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
“.…readers of your comment are left to conclude that you agreed with the point of the linked article, which was that the Obama list is equivalent to the Nixon list.
Perhaps that’s not what you meant, but that’s how it appeared.“
I admit now to being a bit casual in my reference, and it would be easy (especially for an Obama apologist on the defensive) for someone to interpret my pointing it out as suggesting they were equivalent rather than just making the point that what Obama is doing is disturbing on the surface and the “Nixon list” is the closest parallel in modern history, even if nothing else to do with his list, Watergate, or any other corruption in that administration resembles anything Obama’s team has done. Maybe I’m ignorant here, but did we see anything like this in the Ford, Reagan, Carter, Bush I, Clinton, or Bush II presidencies?
I was hoping my analogy would clear things up a bit.…maybe it didn’t. Again, just pointing out it’s a little distrubing to see someone stockpile heavy artillery/amoo, even if it’s “legal.” Just like it’s a little distrubing to see a President put to paper private citizens who he views as political enemies. Yes, it’s far more distrubing when the person storms into and shoots up the town, but you have to be armed first. Obama may not be doing anything over the line yet by naming his opponents, but he’s definitely armed himself by compiling a list. -
#36 written by parksie555 1 year ago
Actually I thought the posting of the Walker numbers was quite relevant to dc’s silly argument that the Republican focus on balancing budgets and reducing debt are merely “rhetoric”. I gave an example of a state governor that is ignoring the empty “rhetoric” from public sector union officials and far left party apparatchiks to actually reduce expenditures and balance a budget. The voters in Wisconsin appear to be quite satisfied with his efforts and obviously feel he is delivering on his promises.
And the most recent polling on Congressional preference seems to indicate that a majority of American voters tend to feel the Republicans are delivering more than just rhetoric.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/generic_congressional_vote-2170.html
As a side note I think it is only appropriate that the unions supporting the Walker recall should in good faith refund the $9 million that it will cost the state to conduct this misguided and futile recall election. -
#37 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
“Interesting personal attacks by shilohbuster don’t seem to bother you.“
Michael’s keen enough to see/realize that was my first response to you after at least a half-dozen pokes here and there this past week. Ignoring you wasn’t working so I thought I’d throw you a bone. You sure seemed to want to play. And I apologize for the crass remark, but the shit-for-brains label was clearly in response to the ‘shilohbuster’ moniker you keep referring to me as. Show some respect and call me by the handle I’ve chosen, Mule Rider, and I’ll offer you the decency of calling you shiloh and try and be respectful otherwise as well. Stick with middle school-taunts and name-calling, and I’ll either ignore you or will continue to not be nice.
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shilohbuster
Obviously my last comment was not referring to this thread, but to the multitude of times you have acted like a spoiled kindergarten kid the past (4) years!
Sorry for any confusion. Again, if 538.com required membership and had rules/regulations, shilohbuster er Shots er Michael er Undeniable er Mule Rider would have been banned instantaneously.
take care
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#39 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
“Sorry for any confusion. Again, if 538.com required membership and had rules/regulations, shilohbuster would have been banned instantaneously.“
Well, it didn’t, I was allowed to stay then and am still here now, so deal with it. There’s nothing in the rulebook that says you have to acknowledge or respond to anything I say. If I’m such the deranged lunatic you suggest, then I don’t really warrant a response and am not worthy of conversation, so the best suggestion I can give you is to ignore me. I was perfectly fine ignoring you, though the incessant pokes told me you were hungry for some kind of interaction. I don’t care which it is, but we’re either going to be at least semi-respectul of each other or not talk at all. -
#40 written by rgbact 1 year ago
should in good faith refund the $9 million that it will cost the state to conduct this misguided and futile recall election.
Maybe make a new law akin to “loser pays” for frivolous lawsuits? Now its for frivolous recalls. Thats campaign finance reform I can support. Or maybe WI just needs to reform their seemingly far too lax recall rules. Our guv. down here in IL is far less popular and he’s in no danger of recall. Course, we’re corrupt. -
parksie, governors are required by law to balance state budgets. It isn’t a question of whether but how.
rgbact, when Republicans turn down President Obama’s suggestion for how to reduce the deficit by $4 trillion, when they insist on immense budget-busting tax cuts, when they refuse to cut the single largest discretionary expense (military) — and actually want to increase defense spending — when every time Republicans get into power (Reagan, Bush 1, Bush 2) they run up huge debts, even turning record surpluses into record deficits in the space of two years — no, they’re clearly not serious about reducing the deficit.
When they reverse themselves on issue after issue just to score political points — when they filibuster bills in the Senate that they wind up voting for just so they can slow things down — when they pass bills out of the House that they know are going nowhere just to make political points — when they violate their own House rules about making bills short and revenue neutral and single-topic and including the Constitutional provisions for each one — when they proclaim their single greatest goal is simply to beat the President rather than governing — when they turn routine matters into Epic Struggles — no, they’re not serious about the good of the nation.
Again, you try to deflect and make an argument of “But your guy does it too!! and worse!!” instead of addressing the topic at hand. And your examples of supposed equivalence are nonsense. None of the activities you’ve suggested from Democrats are in any way comparable to the obstructionist and government-stopping intentionally destructive actions of the Republican Party.
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#44 written by dawolf 1 year ago
@rgbact <i>what? The fact that Senate has no budget for 3+ years and Obama is doing record amounts of fundraisers, yet you think its time for the GOP to get serious about actually governing? </i>
I think the primary aim of any member of parliament/congress/senate/etc should be to try and tackle the problems that country is facing, and drive the country forwards.
Stating that the primary aim is purely to knock the other team out of power is basically ridiculous as far as I’m concerned, and I suspect that were a prominent member of Labour (for instance) to go public with such a sentiment, they would be crucified over here and lose their next election. -
#45 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
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parksie and rgbact, regardless of the result of the recall election (and, despite your backslapping, it hasn’t happened yet) – when a million people sign a recall petition, it is far from frivolous. Regardless of the result, it is democracy in action.
Now, do you two think Republicans will again threaten a government shutdown rather than get serious about negotiating a budget?
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#48 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
“If the people on the list are libeled or slandered, then it’s bad, regardless of who does it or the presence or absence of a list.“
I’d also add that if it’s done as a means to allow others to intimidate/smear/harass, even if it’s not directly from the Obama camp but as a proxy, that’s bad as well.
That’s what bothers me about it. Because Obama has a knack for playing dirty but keeping his hands seemingly clean. He stirs up resentment but somehow remains separated by enough levels from the ugilness that he convinces many people he’s not doing anything. I don’t buy it. -
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Mule,
what is the motivation for developing a list like this? What “good purpose” does it serve?
In the Citizens United world, I think it serves a great purpose knowing who is backing the candidates, particularly any non-incumbent candidates without recent voting records. One can take that sort of thing too far, of course. But I think it’s instructive to know the political positions of big donors…to all candidates.
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rgbact,
The fact that Senate has no budget for 3+ years
Perhaps it would interest you to know that the Senate doesn’t create budgets. They merely get to work on budgets from the House. In years past, that wouldn’t be much of an issue, since the House wouldn’t typically pass budgets that weren’t pre-vetted by the Senate in out-of-chambers negotiations. But that’s not what you get with a Congress where the stated policy of the party out of the White House is to prevent the party in the White House from staying a minute longer than 1,461 days.
The fact that Obama has offered no opinion on Simpson Bowles
My understanding is that he has been silent on Simpson-Bowles because an endorsement of the agreement would guarantee that it’s DOA in the House.
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#54 written by parksie555 1 year ago
Wait — the Democrat controlled Senate has not passed a budget in three years and you are accusing Republicans of not being serious about budget negotiations?
You’re really off your game today DC. Go back to the bullpen and throw a few more warm-up pitches before you try to face big league hitters.
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Mule,
I was hoping my analogy would clear things up a bit
It did for me, anyway. It might be an issue. Seems a bit early to tell at this point.
Obama may not be doing anything over the line yet by naming his opponents, but he’s definitely armed himself by compiling a list.
You’d be pretty naïve to believe that this sort of list hasn’t been compiled by every candidate for significant office in the past several decades.
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Wait — the Democrat controlled Senate has not passed a budget in three years and you are accusing Republicans of not being serious about budget negotiations?
Yes. The Republicans filibuster anything the Democrats propose anyway. You pretend the Democrats “control” the Senate?
Anyway, “passing a budget” is almost meaningless. They enact spending legislation anyway. They enact spending bills for each department. This Republican meme about “passing a budget” means nothing.
Threatening to shut down the gubmint if anyone even suggests revenue increases, that actually means something. It’s despicable.
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#58 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
“Mule, you’re being pretty classy today. I just gotta say that.“
Thanks. Figure if I’m gonna participate, I need to keep it remotely civil. Thanks for your patience and thoughtful questions, even though we don’t often see eye-to-eye.
“I disagree. We may not see this the same way, but I think the “resentment” is from the other side, from the Beat-Obama-At-Any-Cost people like Boehner and McConnell.“
Well, I sure don’t mean to give them a pass as they’re plenty guilty of some of the tactics you’ve accused them of. Obama has more of a bully pulpit, though, as the sole occupier of the Executive Branch and with his oratory gifts. Boehner/McConnell have far less sway and, let’s be honest, aren’t charming people with their rhetoric. They’re just a a couple of babbling old men, and while it doesn’t excuse their unwarranted divisiveness, I think I’m a little more skeptical (admittedly bordering on paranoid) when I hear it from someone with Obama’s charm — who can be much more subtle with his divisiveness — and can motivate millions of people to do his bidding. Despite their power in Congress, Boehner’s/McConnell’s combined audience is small and they have relatively little public influence.
“In the Citizens United world, I think it serves a great purpose knowing who is backing the candidates.…“
Fair enough. But I want to watch closely how this plays otu. Color me a tad skeptical that it’s merely for instructive/illuminative purposes. -
Mule, I see your point about pulpits and charisma. I’m more concerned about the effect on the functioning of government. When Boehner and McConnell have the power to prevent anything from getting done (Republicans in the Senate, for instance, are holding up record numbers of judicial appointments — never has the federal bench been so barren) that’s important.
As I said, I do see your point about charismatic leaders. I think though that you overestimate the President’s charismatic effect. People really aren’t in hypnotic thrall.
I’m more afraid of the 24–7 FOX noise. The President speaks in public (at least, in places the public sees) only now and then. FOX is in millions of houses every day, sometimes all day long. So I guess we each have our paranoias, huh?
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#61 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
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#62 written by shortchain 1 year ago
Parksie,
You apparently are a bit foggy on the concept and application of “filibuster” and “cloture” as it applies to the US Senate. In a nutshell, it means that, when you refer to the “Democrat controlled Senate” (sic), anybody with any knowledge of these issues is allowed to snicker at your ignorance. -
#63 written by rgbact 1 year ago
I’d also add that if it’s done as a means to allow others to intimidate/smear/harass, even if it’s not directly from the Obama camp but as a proxy, that’s bad as well.
Thanks for clarifying your post Mule. I don’t have a problem with keeping track of big donors and publicizing say that Bill Maher gave $1M to Obama. But even I don’t think Maher’s personal life or past undoubtedly immoral and sleazy actions should be used against Obama or to scare off other potential donors. I fear thats where we’re headed though. Nuclear warfare baby. -
#65 written by shortchain 1 year ago
Apparently, on the basis of Mule’s blatant assertion, we are to accept as fact that Obama has a
knack for playing dirty but keeping his hands seemingly clean. He stirs up resentment but somehow remains separated by enough levels from the ugilness that he convinces many people he’s not doing anything.
– I’m not buying this without evidence.
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#67 written by shortchain 1 year ago
parksie,
“Excuses”? — absolutely, as long as you can explain to us how a party without a filibuster-proof majority gets things through the Senate. Do, please. I’ll be waiting. And don’t give us the idiotic “just make a deal” — because, as we have seen, there is no way to make a deal with the House GOP and have them honor it.
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#69 written by shortchain 1 year ago
DC,
Of course they will at least threaten to. They didn’t suffer the last time they did it, and they got much of what they wanted. You don’t prevent a bully from repeating the attempt by caving in to the bully.
Consider it from Boehner’s point of view. Does he risk his position? Not hardly. He’ll be re-elected, and, even if he’s the minority rather than the majority leader, how much worse off will he be? He’s still looking at a long run in Congress, with ample golfing, junkets several times a year, and a nice, lucrative slot as a lobbyist, err, make that a “consultant” waiting for him when he gets tired of it. His only risk is that he’ll be primaried by some right-wing nut job out of office, and he avoids that by letting his right-wingers lead him around.
And it puts him in the “good cop” position — “Sorry, Barack, but you know I’m going to have to ask for ******, or I won’t be able to get this through my caucus.” He doesn’t lose a thing by threatening to shut down the government as long as we have a large minority of people in this country who think they wouldn’t miss the government if it stopped working.
We’ve just had too long a history of reasonably effective government for a lot of people to understand that there’s an alternative to effective government — and it’s not better. -
#70 written by rgbact 1 year ago
So, are Republicans going to try to shut down the government or not? Any takers?
No, the GOP will just make a big deal about it pre-election so as to embarass Obama over the debt (like Democrats did whenever a Republican was president), but in the end why would you stop punting things till next year at this point?
“filibuster” + “cloture” = “excuses”I thought you couldn’t filibuster budgets?
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#71 written by parksie555 1 year ago
So, are Republicans going to try to shut down the government or not? Any takers?
If they feel it is a valid negotiating technique, sure. Why not? If you can’t bring the other guys to the table in any other way, I guess you don’t have much choice in the matter.
As rgb said, it’s all pretty much bluster anyway. -
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#73 written by shortchain 1 year ago
rgbact,
Sure, you can’t filibuster a “budget bill” — but since you can then filibuster anything that is passed to implement it, unless the Democrats in Congress were into empty rhetoric and pointless grandstanding, there’s no point in passing a “budget” that can’t be implemented. Except maybe to impress the impressionable.
And if anybody imagines the GOP in the Senate wouldn’t filibuster to death anything that might give Obama an excuse to point at an accomplishment, just look at the record, will you?
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#76 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
“– I’m not buying this without evidence.“
I guess I figured you were old and erudite enough to understand these concepts, but maybe you aren’t. Please refer here — http://www.differencebetween.net/language/difference-between-objective-and-subjective/ - for a better explanation. -
Mule, so when you say of President Obama that he has a
knack for playing dirty but keeping his hands seemingly clean. He stirs up resentment but somehow remains separated by enough levels from the ugilness that he convinces many people he’s not doing anything.
… you’re really saying that this your subjective impression and isn’t necessarily related in any particular way to objective reality. Is that what you meant by linking to http://www.differencebetween.net/language/difference-between-objective-and-subjective/ ? Or did I misunderstand (always a possibility)?
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#78 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
“– I’m not buying this without evidence.“
More on this point, and with an analogy because I’m so fond of them and their illuminative power to call out hypocrisy and inconsistency…
Both shortchain and I see a guy on the street corner with a Bible in his hand talking to passers-by about Jesus. He isn’t shy, by any means, willing to engage nearly anyone as they walk by, whether they stop a lengthy time to listen, only for a moment, or seemingly pay him no attention. He doesn’t get in their face or act rudely, but he’s persistent in talking about Jesus the whole time he’s on that street corner.
Shortchain sees the situation and declares that the guy is “shoving his religion down others’ throats” whereas it’s my impression the guy’s just doing a little innocent proselytizing. And going the shorthchain route, I proclaim to him and his accusation, “I’m not buying that the guy was “shoving his religion down others’ throats’” without evidence.”
See what I mean? Yes, I used a bit of linguistic liberty in expressing a subjective opinion I have about Obama, that being that it’s my impression he “stirs resentment” and “uses (other) dirty tactics” when politicking. Several — almost too many to count — statements like this are made on a daily basis but in the opposite direction (a bold assertion about the negativity of a Republican/conservative politician) with nothing more than a subjective impressuion of the person as grounds for the accusation. Yet those accusations are rarely called out whereas they almost always are when a conservative-leaning person does it.
You want the linguistic liberty to pull that crap off but then don’t want to extend the courtesy yourself when others so it and say things you don’t like or disagree with. -
#79 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
“Or did I misunderstand (always a possibility)?“
No, and that’s the gist of it.….but shortchain doesn’t seem too keen in people sharing their opinion. All I got to say in response is, judging Obama’s personality isn’t a math test or lab experiment. You don’t add a few X’s and subtract a few Y’s, add in some inert gases and take out some nitrates, and *poof* you have facts and evidence to make an objective assessment of the man and his character (in relation to his tactics, motives, etc.) Back to my analogy, the only “fact” is a guy on a street corner talking about Jesus. It’s my impression he’s “sharing” whereas yours is he’s “shoving.” Who’s right? Well, when it comes to subjective impressions of people, it’s very likely we both are. You see things Obama says and does, and you see him merely as “crafty and smart,” “bold,” “charismatic,” etc. I see those same things and see “cunning,” “manipulative,” “dirty,” etc. -
#80 written by shortchain 1 year ago
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#81 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
“How charming of you to put words in my mouth, thoughts in my head. Would you like to mow my lawn while you are at it?“
Where did I do that? It was you who disputed my subjective impression of Obama and opinion of his character based on that. I merely illustrated how two people can come to seemingly different conclusions as we clearly have. As for the analogy, you could substitute “shortchain” (and myself for that matter) with anyone else as it’s a given in the hypothetical situation I describe you’ll find someone who doesn’t think there’s much to it while the other believes that person is shoving their religion down others’ throats. This isn’t rocket science, bub. You’re better than this. And it’s a little frustrating when you’re the one opening your mouth trying to stir up a little debate and then try and play all coy and innocent when you’re called on it.
If you’re going to get brazen enough to get in my face over every little comment/opinion I share, then meet me in the middle and defend yourself instead of retreating with those stupid pot-shot one-liners and act like you don’t undrestand WTH is going on. Cuz if that’s all you’re going to do, save us both the time and ignore what I have to say. -
#82 written by shortchain 1 year ago
OK, so in four comments, Mule hasn’t come anywhere near providing anything that looks like evidence to back up his earlier assertion, other than to claim, after the fact, that it was merely his opinion. Of course, in admitting that he was blowing smoke, he had to be as insulting and verbose as possible.
By the way, I’ve run into a lot of sidewalk bible-thumpers — and there isn’t a one of them that was passively engaging passers-by about religion. No, they’re all declaiming at the top of their voices, holding up big signs, or standing in the middle of the walkway handing out tracts of religious BS. When you make up an analogy, you really should try to use something that resembles reality — unless you are trying for a reductio ad absurdem argument.
Whatever, Mule. Admission that your assertion was merely an opinion based on no evidence accepted — and, if you have anything to say about Boehner, McConnell, and the possibility that Boehner will try another mulligan, let’s hear it.
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Thanks, Mule.
I think people do vote on their subjective impressions. I wish we could do it more on fact and on the likely results of known fact — but then, “likely results” is a matter of which analytical models you find most convincing, and even that is a subjective assessment.
On the topic of my article, however, we know what the Republican purpose and strategy is. McConnell and Boehner and others have been quite open about it.Their priority is defeating the President. Not creating jobs, not improving the economy, not balancing the budget.
We also know — and this, again, is fact — that Republicans have switched positions once the President has expressed support or opposition to something. We know Senate Republicans have pretty much shut down the Senate. We know that Republicans have nearly shut down the government in the past, and are following pretty much the same script now.
We also know Republican positions are self-contradictory — increasing military spending while cutting taxes will not balance the budget. Reagan tried that. It doesn’t work. We also know Republicans have refused to agree to recommendations that actually would reduce the deficit. We know they are enslaved to Grover Norquist.
Whether one thinks subjectively these things are good or bad will have an impact on one’s vote in November. But these are among the facts we know.
The Republican shenanigans over the budget last summer hurt Republicans in Congress much more than it hurt Democrats — and it actually helped President Obama. We’ll see what effect a rerun has this summer.
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Bottom line, Republicants will do everything within their power trying to destroy Obama er everything they “think” will work to achieve their goal.
Sorta like the Obama campaign will do everything within their power to destroy mittens, if Romney doesn’t implode beforehand lol.
Stay tuned!
>
Interesting mittens doesn’t want to answer any questions re: Bain Capital.
Dear Prudence er mittens, won’t you come out and play?
If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen! ~ Truman
Apologies to John Lennon.
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#85 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
“ Mule hasn’t come anywhere near providing anything that looks like evidence.….“
You almost always circles around to this conclusion, so my best advice is to quit wasting your time and stop engaging me, by using the ignore feature in your head when I post or whatever it takes.
“By the way, I’ve run into a lot of sidewalk bible-thumpers.…“
Thanks for illustrating my point and your small-mindedness in one fell swoop. Yeah, I’ve seen some of what you describe. But overwhelmingly my encounter with “street preachers” has been they are quiet, humble, and respectful. Hard for me to believe that your experience has universally been with the “screamers/sign holders/material distributors” so my analogy went beyond apropos into accurate and insightful by nailing you as a “shove” kinda person.
“Whatever, Mule. Admission that your assertion was merely an opinion based on no evidence accepted.…“
I’m not ashamed to admit it was an opinion (nor should I be) nor am I ashamed of my read on his personality to draw that conclusion. You’ve come to a different one, so be it. Get your panties out of a wad. Why get so uptight that I see him as a cunning asshat, willing to manipulate to advance his political agenda, whereas you obviously see him in a much more positive light? I might dislike Bön Jovi’s music and you might love it, or vice versa. Just like a lefty cultist to get all pissed for someone having a different opinion as them.…an opinion, I might add, shared by many more people than me, so the impression isn’t isolated. But it’s not YOUR opinion, so it can’t be based on facts/reality and is therefor invalid, correct? -
parksie,
I thought I was pretty clear. A no-compromise stance doesn’t work unless you have a majority in the House, supermajority in the Senate, and the White House, with no defectors. Since nobody has that, choosing not to compromise means they aren’t serious about getting anything done. That being the case, it’s disingenuous to point the finger at the other side.For what it’s worth, Democrats agreed to compromise until it became clear that Republicans were going to move the goalposts all the way to the no-compromise position.
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If they feel it is a valid negotiating technique, sure. Why not?
Because it is harmful to the economy, the political process, and the nation as a whole. I guess it’s okay to harm those things if you get what you want, huh?
If you can’t bring the other guys to the table in any other way, I guess you don’t have much choice in the matter.
It’s not a question of bringing Democrats to the table. They’ve been there the whole time. It’s a question of Republicans making nonnegotiable demands for the purpose of slowing down the economy so as to harm the President.
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#88 written by Mule Rider 1 year ago
“Because it is harmful to the economy.…“
When the health of the economy is listed as being potentially at stake because of political gamesmanship between our two major parties and other cat-and-mouse games in Washington, it tells me that the government has gotten far too intertwined in the economy and/or the economy has become far too reliant upon government. -
When the health of the economy is listed as being potentially at stake because of political gamesmanship between our two major parties and other cat-and-mouse games in Washington,
I’m not sure what else to call it when one party threatens to default on America’s debt, simply in an effort to embarrass the President.
Maybe we should call it “nearly treasonous.”
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Mule,
When the health of the economy is listed as being potentially at stake because of political gamesmanship between our two major parties and other cat-and-mouse games in Washington, it tells me that the government has gotten far too intertwined in the economy and/or the economy has become far too reliant upon government.
I understand why you say this, but the predicate is not as tightly coupled to the subject as you imply. Let me toss you a hypothetical to illustrate.
Say Congress is funding everything government does (including military and national infrastructure) on an annual basis, and there are no social programs. The two major parties end up at an impasse, and no budget gets passed, nor does a continuing resolution get passed. Everything government shuts down. What do you think would happen to the economy?
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#91 written by WA7th 1 year ago
dc: It’s not a question of bringing Democrats to the table. They’ve been there the whole time. It’s a question of Republicans making nonnegotiable demands for the purpose of slowing down the economy so as to harm the President.
To anyone who agrees with that argument, Dems are looking like Charlie Brown trying to decide whether or not to make another run to kick the football, knowing Lucy will pull the ball away. Chuck at his penultimate wussiness, about to ratchet it up a notch one more time.
What, then should the Dems do differently this time? So far the closest thing I’ve heard, even indirectly, to any public mention of that by a Democratic leader was last week, when Harry Reid promised filibuster reform when the Senate rules come up again for vote in January. I laughed so hard my chocolate milk came out my nostrils.
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#92 written by shortchain 1 year ago
WA7th,
<OT>
Go get some more chocolate milk. I’ll wait.
Ready? I got an email today (thanks to my being on more mailing lists than any human should be allowed to be) from Dennis Kucinich. He said that, after a lot of thought, he wasn’t going to run for Congress from WA, because he could do more good outside of Congress. (Shades of S. Palin!)
</OT>
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What, then should the Dems do differently this time?
I truly don’t know. Republicans are engaged in slash –and-burn tactics, willing to sacrifice the health of the nation upon the altar of political expediency. They can (and will) stop anything from passing in the Senate, and will refuse to enact anything rational in the House. Legislatively, Democrats can do nothing, unless:
1) Democrats win back the House this fall, and
2) Democrats hold onto the Senate, and
3) Democrats eliminate the filibuster and cloture votes in the Senate.
Without those three things, Republicans will continue dismantling the nation for the foreseeable future.
The destructive wing of the Republican Party truly doesn’t care about America’s economic health. And they will not compromise. On anything.
Republicans also are engaged in ever-more-desperate attempts at vote suppression and other forms of election fraud. If their vote suppression efforts fail in the fall — if they don’t win control of the Senate, and worse, if they lose the House — I’d expect to see actual violence at the polls in 2014.
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He said that, after a lot of thought, he wasn’t going to run for Congress from WA, because he could do more good outside of Congress.
With the current state of the do-nothing Congress, it may be that everyone can do more good outside of Congress. Since Congress does almost nothing at all, opening a lemonade stand might be better for the economy (and create at least one more job) than all of the Republicans put together.
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#95 written by WA7th 1 year ago
RE: Dennis the Menace
At least a few weeks ago, the state party chairman here in WA announced in front of live news cameras that Dennis is very welcome to move here as a citizen, but that the party wouldn’t support him to run for political office. That statement to the press was the friendliest opinion I heard on the matter. I don’t know who the “activists” were who encouraged DK to come out here and test the waters– twice. Probably two undergrad withdrawees from Evergreen State College in Olympia.
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About dcpetterson (187 posts)
D. C. Petterson is a novelist and a software consultant in Minnesota who has been writing science fiction since the age of six. He is the author of A Melancholy Humour, Rune Song and Still Life. He lives with his wife, two dogs, two cats, and a lizard, and insists that grandchildren are the reward for having survived teenagers. When not writing stories or software, he plays guitar and piano, engages in political debate, and reads a lot of history and physics texts—for fun. Follow on Twitter @dcpetterson








Looks like the good voters of Wisconsin are actually concerned with “The rhetoric we’ll hear about balancing the budget or reducing the debt”.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/governor/wi/wisconsin_governor_recall_election_walker_vs_barrett-3056.html
Even the KosKid poll has Walker up 4 points.
Ouch. Sorry libs.
And a PPP poll of the cheeseheads showing Romney only down 1 to the Pretender-in-Chief.
Double ouch.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/wi/wisconsin_romney_vs_obama-1871.html
And that’s registered voters.
Oh my.