Not the Game Change
What does the choice of Paul Ryan as Vice Presidential candidate mean for the campaign of Willard “Mitt” Romney?
A vice presidential running mate is often chosen for a number of reasons — to balance the ticket geographically or ideologically, to satisfy the demands of some branch of the president’s party, to attract a particular group of voters, to fill some perceived weakness in the Presidential candidate. Does Ryan bring any of this to the ticket?
Back in May, many commentators were noting Romney’s need and desire to avoid making the sorts of mistakes Senator John McCain made in his disastrous 2008 campaign. Among them was his choice of then Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as a running mate. At first glance, the choice of Ryan seems to have met the requirement to be unPalin. But how well does Ryan satisfy this?
In as far as the traditional reasons for choosing a Vice President — ticket balance, party demands, attracting voters, perceived weakness — Ryan is not the usual sort of choice. As regards what is perhaps the most vital need this time around — to not be Romney’s Palin — he fails miserably.
For regional or ideological balance, Ryan doesn’t seem to actually change much. Romney had roots in the Midwest, his father having been Governor of Michigan. Ryan holds a House seat from Wisconsin. True, the younger Romney has recently been associated more with the Northeast, enough so that Newt Gingrich called him a “Massachusetts moderate” (and he didn’t mean that as a compliment). And Romney would benefit greatly from Wisconsin’s electoral votes. He probably can’t win the election without them.
Had Romney not taken such a strong anti-Midwestern stance (as when he famously said four years ago we should “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt”), he could have played on his father’s Midwestern roots as former Michigan Governor and former Chief Executive Officer of American Motors. But having slammed that door, he may need someone like Ryan to connect his candidacy to the heart of the country. This may be “geographic balance,” but it is a balance Romney shouldn’t have needed.
Ideologically, Ryan seems to fit a need to establish far-right credentials for Romney. The loud and energetic tea-drinking wing of the Party demanded they be given some sort of bone after a series of their darlings (Representative Michele Bachmann (R-Stillwater, MN), Texas Governor Rick Perry, Herman Cain, Donald Trump, former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich) folded under the weight of actually being seen and heard in public. One can’t say this is “ideological balance” — one cannot “balance” the right with the radical extreme right — but it is an attempt to bow to the demands of what has become an important part of Romney’s party.
Polls seem to indicate that the enthusiastic clique of Republican voters consists primarily of Tea Partiers, who are not particularly enthusiastic about Romney. They do, however, appear to love Paul Ryan, placing him into that series of beloved darlings. It would seem, then, that Ryan can help both to address some of the intra-party squabbles within the Republican establishment, and to draw some voters who are enthusiastic, but not for Romney. In both cases, however, the choice of Ryan is an admission of failure on Romney’s part. Having won the Republican primaries, he should be able at least to excite and unite his own Party. He can’t.
Note here the contrast with Barack Obama in 2008. He went through a bruising primary struggle with Hillary Clinton, but it was bruising because both candidates generated genuine passion, not because the party’s voters were desperate to find someone — anyone — other than the party’s eventual nominee. (Remember all the discussion about the newest not-Romney? Democrats in 2008 never longed for a not-Obama.) And Obama’s solution to the battle was to genuinely address and satisfy the concerns of Clinton supporters, not to find someone else who could do it for him. Ryan will be a constant living, breathing reminder that Romney, as head of the Republican Party, cannot actually lead it on his own.
One thing Ryan doesn’t do is expand the Republican base. He doesn’t draw moderate voters into the tent. His attraction is to the rightist fringe. Recall all the talk during the primaries, that Romney had to swing right to win the nomination, and would have to find a way to tack toward the center in the general campaign. Apparently, Romney has abandoned this course, admitting he was unable to pull in even the Republican wing of the Republican party. He still has to worry about drawing in his supposed base. The choice of Ryan is a signal that there will be no outreach to moderates or independents, because Romney has still failed to draw even the conservatives to whom he so desperately pandered in the primaries. Ryan is an admission of failure.
Regarding Romney’s weaknesses as a presidential candidate and as a potential president, what are the things Romney lacks? He has no foreign policy knowledge or experience. He has no particular experience in the law or the Constitution. He has no military experience, having avoided the Vietnam draft while encouraging others to go. He seems to know little or nothing about science or scientific policy. He did have some executive experience, having served one term as Governor of Massachusetts, but he doesn’t want anyone to look at that record (“I didn’t inhale”), so he might as well never have had it.
The only aspect of any of this that Ryan could conceivably fill has to do with the law, having been a lawmaker since 1999, and having been a Congressional staffer for a few years before that. But this is not something Republicans like these days, with their hatred for government and contempt for Washington. The weakness of Romney’s that Ryan can fill is something that neither Romney nor Ryan will want to stress — that Ryan has been a Washington insider for two decades.
In other words, Ryan doesn’t effectively fill any of Romney’s many weaknesses. In any other year, Romney’s lack of knowledge and experience in government and military and foreign affairs and the law — in, that is, every area that the President is supposed to address — might be an issue. But this year, the campaign is about the economy, and Romney is running on his economic expertise. Keep in mind, Republicans traditionally claim that the President doesn’t have much say in economic matters — Congress, not Clinton, balanced the budget, and Congress, not Reagan, is responsible for the enormous deficits of the 1980s. The President cannot enact budgets or establish taxes or set interest rates. Yet Romney (while not wanting to talk about his time at Bain Capital) is running on his supposed economic acumen.
What does Ryan bring to this? Well, he brings the Ryan Budget and his plan to replace Medicare with a voucher system. Whether one approves of these proposals or not, they are still more reminders that Romney could not, on his own, make the case for himself as an economics wonk. Ryan does fill a perceived weakness here — but it is a weakness at the heart of Romney’s candidacy, a hole in what was supposed to be Romney’s entire reason for his candidacy.
This leaves Ryan as merely not-Palin. At first glance, he would seem to fit this anti-role well. He’s male, she’s female. She quickly developed a reputation for being something of an airhead, whereas Ryan is considered a bona fide policy wonk. Clearly, Ryan is not Palin. But there, the dissimilarity ends. Just as with Sarah Palin, he’s young, he’s attractive, his politics are from the extreme right, and, most importantly, he was brought on board to inject some excitement into a lackluster campaign.
Ryan, in other words, appears to be Romney’s attempt at a game-changer. Ryan is Romney’s admission that, until now, he has been losing, and if something drastic doesn’t happen, Romney will lose.
Ryan brings nothing of significant substance to the ticket, other than things that Romney should have had to begin with, or as a sop to an insurgency within the Party that doesn’t like its own nominee. Ryan is a Hail Mary pass, a trick play that the coach hauls out at the last minute in total desperation. The Romney campaign has become “A vote for Romney is a vote for Ryan” — but Americans do not go to the polls to elect a Vice President.
That was precisely Sarah Palin’s role in the McCain campaign. In other words, Ryan is Romney’s Palin. Ryan actually changes nothing. He simply brings Romney’s failures and inadequacy into sharper focus.
Related articles
- Why Paul Ryan? (douthat.blogs.nytimes.com)
- FiveThirtyEight: A Risky Rationale Behind Romney’s Choice of Ryan (fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com)
- Rejoice! It’s Ryan! (cbsnews.com)
- Richard Viguerie: Paul Ryan is a Good Man, But Not a Game Changer (faithinspires.wordpress.com)
- Paul Ryan’s Jack Abramoff And Tom DeLay Connections Likely To Draw New Scrutiny (huffingtonpost.com)
- Paul Ryan Is No Sarah Palin, Says Romney Camp (buzzfeed.com)
- Romney Chooses Randroid Paul Ryan as VP Candidate… (leiterreports.typepad.com)
- Steve Israel: Paul Ryan’s Selection May Have Become Democrats’ ‘Majority Maker’ In House (huffingtonpost.com)
- Romney running mate Paul Ryan excites local left and right (khou.com)
- Paul Ryan, Ayn Rand Fan, Brings Writer’s Philosophy To Presidential Stage (huffingtonpost.com)

This entry was posted by dcpetterson on August 12, 2012 at 3:00 am, and is filed under Uncategorized. Follow any responses to this post through RSS 2.0.You can leave a response or trackback from your own site.
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I’ve been thinking along the same lines. I think it harks back to the central aspect of the conservative mindset… caution and a dislike of change. This allows them to get in behavioral ruts that can be difficult to escape, like their long-standing custom of nominating the “next-in-line” guy to be the candidate regardless of national mood or conditions.
Now we have this odd new pattern emerging… picking some stuffy Establishment type as the nominee, and then trying to balance that with an off-the-wall, wildly controversial VP choice to energize the base.
I’m trying to imagine what the pairing will be next time. Tim Pawlenty for Pres, Allan West for Veep? Or maybe shiloh’s dream pairing… Rob Portman and Jenna Jameson?
DC and I have been saying for years that this is a party in deep, deep trouble. These erratic, contradictory pairings are, I believe, an indication of the civil war within the GOP. It’s hard to run a unified election campaign when half of your people hate and fear the other half.
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#3 written by rgbact 10 months ago
They MUST win over the middle, by definition, more moderate; in the middle! That by insisting on candidate “MORE conservative”, they are shrinking their national appeal.
The fact that you actually believe Obama the Chicago community organizer and Joe Biden from far lefty Delaware are “moderate” but Romney from über blue Massachussets and Ryan from a Wisconsin swing district are extremists pretty much shows how out of whack today’s Democrat party has become. Lemme guess…Elizabeth Warren and Nancy Pelost are moderates too, huh? Its why states like Wisconsin are fixing to have a GOP governor, 2 GOP senators, and a new GOP VP come 3 months from now. Now carry on with your weighty discussions on the impending end of the Republican Party.
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#4 written by Max 10 months ago
rgbact,
“ The fact that you actually believe Obama the Chicago community organizer and Joe Biden from far lefty Delaware are “moderate” ”
” but Romney from über blue Massachussets and Ryan from a Wisconsin swing district are extremists ”
Please provide the quote where I said Obama is a moderate, or Romney an extremist, or apologize for your assumption and for putting words in my mouth!!
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rgbact,
You can sling what you think are insults all day long, but at the end of the day, what matters is a DW-NOMINATE score.
Here’s Nate Silver’s analysis of the DW-NOMINATE scores of Ryan and other vice-presidential picks going back to the turn of the century.
President Obama’s DW-NOMINATE is about +0.4, with Biden’s score just slightly more moderate.
In summary, there’s no evidence that Obama and Biden together are “more liberal” than the bulk of their party. Democratic representatives in Congress, as a whole, are much less liberal than Republican representatives in Congress are conservative, and the difference is quite large.
If you have any data you’d like to bring to this discussion, please submit it now.
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rgb… Everywhere I go at my usual conservative sites this morning, I see the same attitude as the one you and Wally are expressing here. Republicans all seem so cranky and defensive today.
Serious question… If you all are thrilled with Ryan, and confident about your prospects, why aren’t you sunny and confident this morning? Why the snarky attacks and grumbles? It seems odd to me. Off-key, somehow.
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I would also refer you to this earlier analysis I did of DW-NOMINATE scores for the “average” Congressional representative vs. the President and Speaker for the last 30 years.
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So… can somebody explain to me the finer points of Ryan’s actual plan? I confess I only know the media sound-bites, and they seem crazy to me.
If Ryan plans to lower taxes on the wealthy, keep other tax rates constant and increase defense spending, how can he possibly lower deficits except on the backs of the poor and the middle class? And how does he expect to sell that concept to the entire electorate? There must be something to it that I’m missing… because in the broad outlines it makes no sense at all.
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#9 written by shortchain 10 months ago
@filistro,
wikipedia’s entry is generally a good place to start. -
#10 written by rgbact 10 months ago
<i>If you all are thrilled with Ryan, and confident about your
prospects, why aren’t you sunny and confident this morning?</i>I am thrilled—just I’m never sunny when replying to Max. As Grog says,
its a great time to be a Republican. When even moderate GOP’ers from
blue states are embracing conservatism.….it feels very good. I look forward to Max posting sometime in the future about a crazed right wing GOP’er getting elected from Hawaii.<i>Here’s Nate Silver’s analysis of the DW-NOMINATE scores of Ryan and other vice-presidential picks going back to the turn of the century.</i>
Those analyses are rather meaningless. The current party alignment didn’t realy take hold until the 60’s, when modern conservatism also emerged. As was also debated in a debate with Norm Ornstein I saw recently.…the GOP was also a lapdog for many years, and aren’t anymore, which causes much hand wringing among liberals.
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#11 written by Max 10 months ago
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#12 written by shortchain 10 months ago
rgbact,
Make no mistake about it: the GOP is still a lapdog. It’s changed laps, jumping into the lap of the religious right and the racist south, but it’s still held on a tight leash by the folks with a lot of money.As for “moderates turning conserative” — what I see are a fair number of moderates ditching the party or being pushed out (see, for example, what’s happening in Kansas as the Koch brothers buy the state’s GOP party to form a right-wing political enclave).
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shortchain, I’ve tried to wrap my mind around the wiki explanation of Ryan’s plan, but it just won’t register. I need a kind,patient adult to take my hand and walk me slowly through it, because when I read this stuff it sounds in my brain like Charlie Brown’s teacher… “mwa mwa mwa.”
This plan is all mushy, vacant and hopelessly optimistic in the middle numbers, like the job plan of the Underpants Gnomes.
1.) reward the wealthy, enrich the defense contractors, hammer the middle class
2.) ????
3.) happy country!
Maybe rgb can explain step 2 to me in a way I can understand. Because this may be a jim-dandy plan for those of conservative mindset but the problem to me is… how do you ever sell it to the voting public?
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#14 written by Max 10 months ago
rgbact just exhibited another common right wing trait. Just as Mule did by demonstrating the truth of their core on states rights and the 10th: it’s OK as long as the states do it by right wing rules.
rgbact shows the common trait where they ignore facts, substitute their own misbelief, take things out of context, and then draw a conclusion at odds with the truth. Then NEVER back down, even when their noses get rubbed in the truth.He KNOWS that he wrongly stated my “belief”. He IGNORES all the data from all the sources, including conservative polls like Fox News and Scotty Rasmussen, that show a commanding lead for Obama. He LIVES on out of context BS like the whole “you didn’t build that” meme. And he makes his OWN conclusion at odds with the facts. And he REFUSES to admit any error.
Sorry, rgbact, but it then doesn’t help you to cry when you get called out.
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#15 written by rgbact 10 months ago
<i>and the racist south</i>
Yeah, we know the hatred the left holds for the South and even states like AZ and really any city with a Chick Fila. Hard to bring a country together when you’ve labeled half of it as racist or a bigot though and as was shown with the Chick Fila deal.…alot of people are about tired of it.
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#16 written by Mule Rider 10 months ago
“Just as Mule did by demonstrating the truth of their core on states rights and the 10th: it’s OK as long as the states do it by right wing rules.”
This is false and shows just how perverse and idiotic your arguments are. You took me complaining about ONE law in ONE state (about water in Oregon) and blow that up into me being a right-wing ideologue about the 10th amendment. That’d be like taking a complaint by you over a sales tax in some county in Alabama as you favoring complete and total redistribution of wealth. No, not gonna work. And I’m sick of this kind of behavior on here.
This is why you’re nothing but an unrepentant blowhard and I consider your opinions invalid. And with most of the views expressed by your brethren here as well as their tolerance of your ridiculous blowhardiness, it’s why I consider this site pretty much invalid as well.
Good day.
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@rgb… Yeah, we know the hatred the left holds for the South and even states like AZ and really any city with a Chick Fila.
Jeez, rgb. And they’re always ragging on me around here for making sweeping generalized statements!
Note… the keynote speaker at the Democratic convention this year is the mayor of San Antonio.
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#19 written by Max 10 months ago
Mule,
I made a point using your specific complaint about a state law, made with the authority of the people of Oregon, in their desire for their safety and security, and in place for over 100 years, that it was an example of a “police state”. That point is that such complaints by the right wing is a common occurrence, in spite of their lip service to states rights. Nothing personal was to be directed to you, but an observation of folks that seem to follow your prevailing ideology.
If you wish, I can give a few examples from other conservatives that also confirm that observation.
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#20 written by Max 10 months ago
Well, since rgbact considers me a “lefty”, once again he ignores the facts and substitutes his jaded opinion. This time he, a yankee born and bred, tells us how people feel about the South.
Young man, I am a native South Carolinian. I have lived in Tennessee and Georgia and California as well, and when I was about to retire, I CHOOSE to move to Texas. At this minute, there’s a TX flag flying just under the American flag in my front yard, and the 1st National flag of the Confederacy ( NOT the battle flag) on a stanchion outside my garage, just in front of my Lone Star and on my car is a bumper sticker proclaiming “I wasn’t born in Texas, but I got here as fast as I could”. I lost a relative at Seven Pines in 1862 that I fly that flag in remembrance of.
Demonstrably I am Southerner and a progressive liberal who is quite proud of the South. And with my inherent and intricate knowledge of the South and Southerners I KNOW that there is a significant numbers of racists here. As there are throughout the nation and the world.
Are there things about Southern history I am NOT proud of and detest? Yes!Just as you (we) can be Americans and can detest and NOT be proud of in America’s history. Such as the Native American genocide and the internment of the Americans of Japanese ancestry and, yes, slavery!
So take your ignorance and your ideological prejudice and shove it!
Now, if all y’all will forgive me, I shall be away a bit watching me some NASCAR, and the PGA Championship from Kiawah Island South Carolina!
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#21 written by Max 10 months ago
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As I said, rgbact, any time you want to bring actual, you know, data to the party, feel free.
DW-NOMINATE scores go back to the 1st Congress. So spare me your off-the-cuff analysis of the change in the Republican Party since the 1960s. I was there, and I lived it, being born and bred into a Republican family. -
fili,
Maybe if I come at this from a different direction, it will make more sense.
All of us recognize that there need to be changes in social services spending, particularly health care spending, in order to balance the Federal budget.
Obama believes that the cost curve for medical spending, in particular, can be bent by PPACA/Obamacare. Along with the provisions to cover more Americans, there is a set of provisions that should help curb the costs in health care spending over the next ten years. Recall that the US is unique among nations in spending 18% of its GDP on health care, about double that of other OECD (first-world) nations.
Conservatives like Ryan do not believe that PPACA/Obamacare will shrink health care spending. In fact, they believe it will expand spending. It really depends on what assumptions you plug into the model. If you assume (as I do, and as the Congressional Budget Office does, and as the majority of health care economists do) that PPACA will help curb Federal health care expenditures, then you would be mystified by the Republican arguments.
If, on the other hand, you assume that PPACA will do nothing to curb health care spending, that it will in fact expand health care spending, then there’s only one way to curb spending: directly control expenditures by clamping down on what the government spends on health care. To make it politically palatable, Ryan delayed the start of the program to ten years out so that only those under 55 would be affected. That’s not done because it’s fiscally sound. That’s a bald political move to get “buy in” from seniors.
As far as how the Republicans can possibly sell this plan, I have no idea. It’s clear to those of us who think about these things that there has to be rationing. It’s just a question of who is going to do the rationing.
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#24 written by rgbact 10 months ago
“As I said, rgbact, any time you want to bring actual, you know, data to the party, feel free”
I told you…the data is flawed, so its not worth analyzing. The conservative party has slowly moved from being the Democrats to the Republicans over the last 100 years. So why the heck would I analyze
voting records of the 2 parties over that period knowing that shift has taken place? -
Treme… I get that there need to be cuts, the current trajectory of US health care costs is clearly “over the cliff.” What mystifies me is how Republicans think they can reduce those costs on the backs of voters and get support for that plan.
As somebody who lives under a pretty efficient single-payer plan that costs the nation about half as much to deliver per capita as health care in the US, I can personally attest that the quality of individual care does not suffer. If it did, you can be sure that my family and I would be buying our care elsewhere because we can afford to… but we have never once needed to pay a penny for any sort of care over and above what is covered by Health Canada.
Here, the cuts are not made at the delivery level. They are made at the executive and professional level, where doctors are not allowed to order expensive redundant tests or prescribe unnecessary surgeries, Big Pharma is kept in check and there are no HMO’s to gouge people and skim off profits.
What the Ryanites propose seems to me akin to a family deciding the household budget is much too high and bankruptcy is looming… but the parents are unwilling to cut back on the monthly lease for the Lexus, the winter trips to Spain and the costly entertaining. So their solution to balance the budget is to decide they’ve been spending way too much on groceries, and the kids can surely get along on 600 calories a day without suffering too much harm.
Pretty hard to sell that budget plan… especially if all the kids have a vote.
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Monotreme,
I suspect that conservatives don’t actually care about lowering the costs of healthcare. Ryan’s proposals don’t do that. What they care about is who pays those costs.
I’d even go so far as to say that true conservative free-marketers would be just fine if healthcare costs continued going up, as long as someone was making a profit from it. That’s the point of capitalism — charge what the market will bear, so the supplier of a good or service can make a profit.
The intent of Ryan and other modern conservatives is not to lower costs, but to control who pays, and they don’t want it to be them. Ryan’s proposal shifts the cost of medical care from “taxpayers” to the individual health care consumer. The proposal’s intent is to remove the government as much as possible from supplying health care funding. It lowers the cost to the government, but does little to lower the overall cost.
I say “does little”, because it does force costs down by attrition. That is, since fewer people who most desperately need health care will be able to afford it, they’ll die sooner, so the total amount the nation will spend on health care may go down. On the other hand, in order to maintain or increase profits, the insurance companies and health care providers are likely to raise the costs for other services. Thus, the total health care expeditures may well go down, but the costs for most individual procedures are likely to go up.
This, I think, is an important point. The Ryan budget really does little or nothing to lower health care costs. It only reduces the share of those costs that is borne by The People collectively. It increases the share that is borne by the individual who is sick or injured — or who has the misfortune of living a long time.
Conservatives like this approach because it promotes greater profits for insurance companies and health care providers. That’s the reason they oppose public involvement — because actually controlling health care costs through a public health care system would reduce the profits of large corporations.
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filistro,
Republicans will try to sell Ryan’s heartless and sociopathic policies by a) claiming that taxes will go down for average Americans (it’s a lie, they won’t), and 2) frequently repeating the word “Obamacare” with a sneer and a glare, as if describing something they found on the bottom of their shoe. The intent will be to convince the voting public that only welfare queens use Medicare, and that tax dollars simply vanish into some dark pit without providing any benefit to anyone who deserves it.
The reason why Republicans like the Ryan plan is given here. Under Ryan’s structure, Romney’s tax rate for 2010 (the one year he’s released, so it can be calculated) would have been 0.82%. That’s right, less than one percent. For the rest of us, our taxes skyrocket, especially the hidden taxes which are what we will pay for things that federal (or state) programs no longer provide.
Romney and Ryan see public office as a way of enriching themselves. That is their entire interest in government.
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#28 written by shortchain 10 months ago
rgbact,
You say “the daa is flawed” — which is nonsense. Data can be incomplete, or even nonexistent, and the interpretation can be flawed, or even just flat-out wrong — but the data itself is just data.We just had a discussion about this, brought to us by Reed in reference to Laffer’s rejection of the data because it didn’t fit with his ideological assumptions.
Is that the problem you have with it?
I suggest that, instead of claiming the data is wrong, tell us why the interpretation of it is wrong. What do you propose that will be better than the DW-Nominate axis?
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Again, according to exit polls in 2004/2008, conservatives were 34% of the electorate. And yes, ahead of self-identified liberals to be sure, but ((( 34% ))) is still far short of getting a staunch conservative like hmm … Paul Ryan elected president.
And Wisconsin’s con union busting will not play well in Ohio or PA or MI ie congressman Ryan, do you agree w/Walker’s union busting in WI? Interesting Ryan was picked over Boehner ~ OH and Cantor ~ VA as all three would have been negatives in their home state.
No wonder some cons aren’t too happy w/mittens’ v-p pick.
>
btw, w/mittens v-p pick, basically every Republican incumbent is now runnin’ for re-election supporting the Ryan plan, most of them voting for the plan notwithstanding.
This could help to tip the balance in the House and too funny Romney is trying to distance himself from the Ryan plan now after supporting it originally. Oops!
Of course Romney also was 100% in favor of AZ’s immigration plan and then the SC overturned it. Another Oops!
So many mittens’ Oops! So little time …
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And like mama grizzly the cogent question:
Is Ryan ready to be C-in-C? Is Romney ready to be C-in-C notwithstanding.
Obviously, a majority of cons felt mittens was not qualified in 2008 and many cons still feel that way looking at the 2012 primaries. ok, ok, plus cons just don’t like Romney!
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@shiloh… basically every Republican incumbent is now runnin’ for
re-election supporting the Ryan plan, most of them voting for the
plan notwithstanding.
This could help to tip the balance in the HouseAs so often happens, shiloh has unerringly put his finger on something I didn’t even think of until now. Every Republican in every race will now be asked if they support the plan put forward by the top of the ticket!
That whirring sound you hear is every campaign headquarters across the country trying to decide just how they’ll finesse those questions. All of them are suddenly and unexpectedly more vulnerable.
And the contented slurping sound you hear is Obama licking his chops in anticipation of the presidential debates. He is now in an even better position to strike true and prevail because he will be arguing with wholesome common sense and human decency on his side. Or, as Tennyson put it:
My good blade carves the casques of men,
My tough lance thrusteth sure,
My strength is as the strength of ten,
Because my heart is pure. -
#32 written by rgbact 10 months ago
“We just had a discussion about this, brought to us by Reed in
reference to Laffer’s rejection of the data because it didn’t fit
with his ideological assumptions.”I’m using my “judgement” to reject the data or at least to say it doesn’t apply. Yes, using judgement in data analysis is very important–I’m surprised someone in analysis would disparage it. The DW-nominate stuff is useful, I just think you’re stretching it beyond that usefulness.
Btw, Obama hits 43% in Gallup approval for 3 straight days now, after only being that low for 9 days all year. Looks like some of the negative ads may be backfiring.
“Of course Romney also was 100% in favor of AZ’s immigration plan and then the SC overturned it”
No they didn’t. Alot of great stuff remains, like E-verify, which Romney was proposing go national
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#33 written by shortchain 10 months ago
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No rgbact, the one facet that remains “show me your papers” was upheld because it hasn’t/hadn’t been implemented yet ie nobody in AZ has had the opportunity to file suit against said provision being unconstitutional.
btw, you were payin’ attention to the thread(s) here explaining the SC decision when it came down ?!?
take care
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Here’s another way in which the naming of Ryan is an admission of failure of the Romney campaign.
Romney wanted the election campaign to be a referendum on Obama’s first term (see Michael’s “Shimmer Floor Wax Election” article). That’s gone. Romney was unable to make it into a referendum. With Ryan on the ticket, it is absolutely a “choice” election.
There will still be a small element of “referendum,” as there always is when an incumbent runs for reëlection. But the majority of the discussion, from now on, will be the contrast between (on the one hand) the President’s vision for how to move the country forward, and (on the other) the heartless and sociopathic class warfare of the Romney/Ryan plan.
Romney could not make the election simply a discussion of the how Republicans have stood in the way of economic recovery. Now it’s about whether Republicans will be allowed to take tax money from the poor and middle class and transfer it to the very wealthy — will we elect Romney Hood as Sheriff of Sherwood Forest, and let him continue to steal from the poor to give to the rich?
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#37 written by GROG 10 months ago
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grog’s childish fly-by notwithstanding …
Paul Ryan Only Passed 2 Bills Into Law In More Than A Decade
“He’s been in Congress for nearly 13 years, but Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) has only seen two of his bills pass into law during that time.
Ryan, who Mitt Romney has tapped as his running mate, passed a bill into law in July 2000 that renames a post office in his district. Thanks to Ryan, the post office on 1818 Milton Ave. in Janesville, Wis., is now known as “Les Aspin Post Office Building.”
The other time Ryan saw one of his bills become law was in December 2008, with legislation to change the way arrows (as in bows and arrows) are hit with an excise tax. Specifically, his bill amended the Internal Revenue Code to impose a 39-cent tax per arrow shaft, instead of a 12.4 percent tax on the sales price. The bill also “includes points suitable for use with arrows in the 11 percent excise tax on arrow parts and accessories.”
Kevin Seifert, Ryan’s congressional spokesman, did not respond to a request for comment.
UPDATE: 2:30 p.m. — It appears Ryan had a personal interest in passing the arrow tax bill: He is an accomplished bowhunter. Jay McAninch, president of the Archery Trade Association, earlier this year praised Ryan on his blog for pushing that bill through.”
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#41 written by shortchain 10 months ago
More humor for you:
I stumbled across a comment from a certain ex-contributor to this site who opined that the only thing that could make this ticket better would be if Romney releases* all his delegates and steps aside so that Ryan can run with Romney as VP candidate.(*ignoring the will of the people who voted for them to support his candidacy — and some of the major nomination rules, because, of course, the ex-contributor knows better than the election results what the people want, who is electable, and what is could for the country…)
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#42 written by Mule Rider 10 months ago
Serious question: do you all want this to be a serious site? Or do you really, deep down, just want to put up that façade but really keep it as an echo chamber for navel-gazing and self-congratulation of “liberal ideals” and spew hate/condescension of conservatism/libertarianism? Because, at this point, it would be very difficult for you to convince me otherwise.
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#43 written by Armchair Warlord 10 months ago
rgbact,
Your judgement is nothing more than a partisan knee-jerk against data that does not fit your world view. It is worthless.
Shortchain,
I disagree with your statement that data cannot be inherently flawed. Data is routinely cherry-picked and manipulated to present a misleading picture to support partisans who otherwise would not have a statistical leg to hop around on. Data collection methods may themselves be inappropriate for the situation at hand and produce results that have nothing to do with reality.
A good case study of this is the Lancet excess-mortality study (and its later followup study) in Iraq, which returned results suggesting that the number of people killed in the Iraq War was some ten times greater than the number who actually, you know, died.
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#44 written by GROG 10 months ago
DC,
“Grog, what’s your opinion of Paul Ryan and his likely impact on the campaign and the upcoming election?”
What’s my opinion of “the heartless and sociopathic” Paul Ryan?
I’m pretty sure he’s a white supremacist, robber of the poor, giver to the rich, homophobe who really hates puppies and doesn’t recycle.
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#45 written by shortchain 10 months ago
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I just got an email from my pen-pal, Mitt Romney. He said:
Patriot,
Paul Ryan is a strong conservative leader, and I am proud to
have him as my running mate.He is widely respected for his leadership
skills and his intellect, and for his ability to tackle serious
issues.Together, we understand that a limited government and fiscal
responsibility will unleash prosperity for all Americans.Donate $15 today to help
restore America’s greatness and build a stronger middle
class.Thanks,
Mitt Romney
Mitt doesn’t specify how my 15 bucks is going to “build a stronger middle class” but I’m sure he’ll explain it after he gets the money. -
#47 written by shortchain 10 months ago
@filistro,
It’s very simple: “Was mich nicht umbringt, macht mich stärker.”Sure, a lot of the people who are in the middle class today will no longer be in the middle class after a Romney/Ryan administration (if they get their way on taxes and spending) — but what’s left will be that part which makes over half a mil a year, and they’ll be doing fine.
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#48 written by Armchair Warlord 10 months ago
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#49 written by shortchain 10 months ago
AW,
You’re right in a sense: people can simply make up stuff. But that’s not “data” in any real sense of the word, and certainly not in the sense that was being discussed in this thread. The DW-Nominate data has in no sense been “made up”.And, of course, data that is simply made up, properly interpreted, tells us a lot about the people who made it up.
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Grog, those are some strong personal attacks on Paul Ryan. I didn’t know you felt that way about him. I have no idea what he’s like as a person. For me, what matters is the policies he has proposed.
Regardless of what you think of Ryan as a human being, what effect do you think his proposed policies and his presence on the Republican ticket will have on the campaign and the upcoming election?
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@shortchain… “Was mich nicht umbringt, macht mich stärker.”
No kidding. The scattered remnant of the middle class that survived the Romney-Ryan years would be as tough as old boots.
I think it’s cute that Mitt considers me a “patriot” when half my ancestors were murdering heathen redskins and the rest were United Empire Loyalists. But come to think of it, Mitt’s forebears decamped en masse to Mexico a lot more recently than mine pulled up stakes and headed for Canada, so maybe he’s just cutting me some slack.
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#53 written by GROG 10 months ago
DC,
“I have no idea what he’s like as a person. For me, what matters is the policies he has proposed.“
For a guy to propose “sociopathic and heartless” policies, he must be a heartless sociopath. Don’t you think?what effect do you think his proposed policies and his presence on the Republican ticket will have on the campaign and the upcoming election?“
Very little. The narrative will be the same old leftwing talking points that you have repeated on this thread and that are repeated during every election. Republicans are trying to steal from the poor and give to the rich. They want to destroy the middle class. They’re racists. They don’t care about the sick or the poor or the downtrodden.Ryan being on the ticket won’t change any of that.
With that said I think it will help the Romney/Ryan ticket. A lot of people in this country still relate to individualism, personal repsonsibility, and limited government much more than what Obama stands for. I doubt it will be enough to win though.
I like Ryan a lot and I’m glad Romney chose a solid conservative. When Republicans nominate conservatives, they win. See Reagan and GW Bush. See the 2010 midterms. Then see Bob Dole and John McCain. These are great times to be a conservative.
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#54 written by Max 10 months ago
Well, an Australian won the NASCAR race in Watkins Glen NY, and an Ulsterman won the PGA in South Carolina.
Is this a great country, or what???
Meanwhile, I see the winger élite here still provide little more than opinion and jest, with no counterpoint, in spite of their oppositional mindset.
Verifiable data? Nope!
Reasoned argument? Naaaa!
Honest debate? Yeah, right!GROG provides satire. Poorly done, but at least satire.
Mule complains about seriousness, but provides not any serious points and authorities.
rgbact dishes on whatever without ANY proof and, in fact is plain wrong.Michael, I hope you were not expecting rgbact to actually answer your question from a couple hours ago. You know he won’t. He’ll remain steadfast in his ignorance and stand on HIS opinion over fact. Fact that shows the Democrats passed Social Security almost 80 years ago, instituted an integrated military over 60 years ago and Medicare and civil rights and voting rights legislation 50 years ago, all so VERY conservative.
Armchair Warlord, in #43, hit rgbact’s head on the nail.
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#55 written by GROG 10 months ago
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I always admire the conservatives who post here because I know it’s not easy.
One of the most basic human urges is the need to be accepted and valued by whatever group we are with. I assume this is inborn because in man’s earliest history, if you were cast out by the group you wandered alone in the wilderness until you died. Whatever the reason, it’s hard to be in a group where people mock and insult you because you’re not in the majority.
I post occasionally at right-wing sites, partly just to see how it feels… and like I said, it’s not easy when nine out of ten people disagree with you, some of them violently. Last week I posted a comment at a conservative site about Rasmussen’s bias, and a guy immediately responded, “People like you are what is wrong with this world & I hope you rot in hell.”
That kind of stuff is okay one on one, but when you get ganged up on, it’s really awful. The only person I know who LIKES that kind of warfare is shiloh, who actually seeks it out. But then, we all know shiloh was born to raise hell
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For a guy to propose “sociopathic and heartless” policies, he must be a heartless sociopath. Don’t you think?
Not my concern. I’m concerned with the policies and their effect.
With that said I think it will help the Romney/Ryan ticket. A lot of
people in this country still relate to individualism, personal
repsonsibility, and limited government much more than what Obama
stands for.What is it you think Obama stands for?
I like Ryan a lot and I’m glad Romney chose a solid conservative.
When Republicans nominate conservatives, they win.… and yet …
I doubt it will be enough to win though.
Since Ryan is “a solid conservative,” and since “When Republicans nominate conservatives, they win,” why don’t you think the nomination of Ryan will be enough to win?
By the way, it’s good to see you recognizing “GW Bush” as a conservative, since so much of the Republican party is running away from him these days. (Reagan, of course, would be considered a RINO by today’s standards.)
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filistro, I echo your sentiments. That’s why I try to engage Grog and Mule in conversation, and do my best to be polite, and even light-hearted at times. And I understand the frustration and ganged-up-on-edness they must feel. That’s why I seldom respond to (for example) Mule’s violent insults or even Grog’s expressions of frustrations such as he’s made on this thread, preferring instead to stay focused, as much as I can, on policy and on the actual topics at hand.
For all of our commenters — please try to avoid personal attacks and insults. We’re all better than that.
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still relate to individualism, personal responsibility, and limited government
Romney was born w/a silver spoon and never had to worry about $$$ a day in his life. And used being a Mormon missionary to skip out of the Vietnam War. Re: limited govt. let’s not talk about mittenscare!
Ryan, as far as I can tell has had govt. jobs most of his life except for Weinermobile driver lol. Re: limited govt. and the Bush43 ginormous debt and deficits, how many times did Ryan vote against Rep/Bush legislation that increased govt. spending. Did he vote against Bush’s needless/unwarranted Iraq war? Did he vote against Homeland security? Did he vote against any of Bush’s fiscal budgets? Did he vote against the Patriot Act? etc. etc. Rhetorical.
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Re: grog continually playin’ the ideological victim here: He must not be old enough to remember Kerry being swift boated, Clinton being impeached, Dukakis and Willie Horton. Indeed as Ailes/Safire/Atwater/turdblossom started hate/division/fear mongering/misinformation scorched earth, take no prisoners presidential campaigning and the Dems have finally caught up and evened the playin’ field w/the enormous help of the worst (8) years in presidential history ~ 2001⁄2009. Thanx George! I digress.
Again, it’s the nature of political blogging to be disagreeable.
And grog’s “attempt” to play the victim here is amusing ie redstate/freeperville, etc. grog, remember when your very good buddy, shilohbuster, used the ‘F’ bomb 25⁄26 times in a reply to me. Sure you do, eh.grog, when you find the perfect political blog please let us all know. Although it probably won’t have many members as they all will be :zzzz:
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And fili really, as nobody pays any attention to me and shilohbuster/grog/rgbact etc. get more upset w/Max/shortchain/dc than any of my innocuous sarcasm.
Although I did get Bartles so upset a couple times he told me to fuck off! And said he would … hmm, let me look it up
then there will be no more further discussion between the two of us. Period.But Bartles, like myself and unlike shilohbuster, didn’t hold a grudge lol.
Am I still on topic …
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Speaking of Bartles, a blast from the past!
November 2012 cannot come soon enough.
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Re: political blogs and disagreeing: I’m not totally familiar w/the why’s and wherefore’s, but there are at least (4) peeps who post here, who were kinda upset w/their previous political accommodations that they moved on … and found a new home.
So this is a breakaway blog from a breakaway blog.
btw, moving can be a real pita!
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#62 written by Mule Rider 10 months ago
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#64 written by rgbact 10 months ago
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rgbact, I’m just incredibly tolerant that way. Hate the sin, but love the sinner.
Seriously though, my concern is with public policy, not with the personal proclivities of particular politicians. If a given policy results in the increased wealth for the person proposing it, but also leads to increased suffering and poverty for much of the rest of the nation, it can reasonably be seen as “heartless” and “sociopathic.” Do you disagree?
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#67 written by rgbact 10 months ago
“Do you disagree?”
Nope. Thats one place I think voters get it right. Most presidents I remember to be generally very good people, just some more wrong headed than others. Even someone like Jimmy Carter I admire for being a saint of a guy, just out of his depth in the White House (like Obama). Nixon might be the only one I would put in the sociopathic category, although you obviously think Romney and Ryan are 2 sick individuals as well.
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dc, peeps probably skim my posts just to see who I’m pissing off as I’m an equal opportunity annoyer.
In any event, as much as grog, rgbact and especially I’m totally done w/this blog shilohbuster harp sarcastically/nonsensically/incoherently about how this is the worst political blog er echo chamber on the internet, they are all still here!
hmm, fatal attraction lol.
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I yield back the balance of my time to shilohbuster who can once again say, I’m totally done w/this blog!
death, taxes and …
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btw, forgot to mention I’m totally in agreement w/Bartles …
November 2012 cannot come soon enough.
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Most presidents I remember to be generally very good people, just some more wrong headed than others.
Well, there you go. I’m not worried about whether a politician is a “good person.” We all know what the road to Hell is paved with. My concern is with the probable results of proposed policy.
The Ryan/Romney budget and tax structure would enrich people like Ryan and Romney, while increasing the taxes to be paid by people like you and me (well, maybe not me — I’m doing pretty well — but definitely my kids). It would also cause our national education and infrastructure to further crumble. It would lead to increased poverty and suffering, through reduced regulation and reduced consumer protection. It would provide higher heath costs with lower outcomes. Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid, which have allowed America’s seniors to retire with dignity for three generations, would be gutted. It would also further balloon the deficit and lead to another fiscal meltdown and higher unemployment.
These are not outcomes I would want, simply to further enrich the likes of Romney and Ryan. I see no upside there. I cannot understand the point of view of people who do.
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#70 written by Armchair Warlord 10 months ago
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A thought has occurred to me.
Grog said,
A lot of people in this country still relate to individualism, personal responsibility, and limited government much more than what Obama stands for.
I believe he meant to imply that there is some contradiction or tension or dichotomy between “individualism, personal responsibility”, and a recognition that there are some things we can do better together than we can as individuals.
Modern so-called “conservatives” seem to think that if someone believes government has a legitimate role in improving our nation, that implies such a person does not believe in personal responsibility. Conversely, if one believes in the value of individual initiative, that means one must reject government inspection of the wholesomeness of our food supply and the reasonableness of our educational system, and the intact-ness of our social contract (in things like Social Security and Medicare).
Liberals do not believe that individual initiative is incompatible with civic duty. We do not hold that one must sacrifice one for the other, but rather that they properly work together for both the greater good and the good of individual citizens.
There is a place both for personal creativity, and for a recognition that we are part of a larger culture. It is not either-or. It is both-and. One does not need to deny one to value the other.
These are complimentary, not contradictory, principles. It is a false dichotomy. Seeing to the public good is something that enriches all individuals. Public education, for example, makes it possible for each individual to achieve his or her true potential.
In contrast, denying the power of We the People to see to Our collective welfare is the surest way to create a monied élite who has access to the ripest fruit, and a permanent underclass whose individuals cannot ever achieve more than their parents.
Romney and Ryan represent the latter course.
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#75 written by WA7th 10 months ago
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Well WA, religion is all about ceremony. Usually inane ceremony, but ceremony just the same. An incentive to become an altar boy was “they” thought it would lead to free wine. btw, I wasn’t or ever wanted to be an altar boy as I was smarter than the average bear!
Praise the lord! and pass the collection basket …
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About dcpetterson (194 posts)
D. C. Petterson is a novelist and a software consultant in Minnesota who has been writing science fiction since the age of six. He is the author of A Melancholy Humour, Rune Song and Still Life. He lives with his wife, two dogs, two cats, and a lizard, and insists that grandchildren are the reward for having survived teenagers. When not writing stories or software, he plays guitar and piano, engages in political debate, and reads a lot of history and physics texts—for fun. Follow on Twitter @dcpetterson






My simple question is: when will the conservatives learn that one does NOT win national elections solely on it’s base.
They MUST win over the middle, by definition, more moderate; in the middle! That by insisting on candidate “MORE conservative”, they are shrinking their national appeal.
But, sure as shootin’, when they lose this fall, that’ll be the right wings cry.