Reëlection Watch: September 8, 2012
We’ve had a busy two weeks. Now the real campaigning begins in earnest. And in Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, Virginia, Colorado, New Mexico, and Nevada.
Of course, our Reëlection Watches look backward a little more than they look forward, so le centre du jour is the Convention Bumps. How are they turning out for the two leading candidates? Let’s take a look.
National Polls
President Barack Obama’s approval/disapproval rating in the Real Clear Politics average continues to oscillate right around zero. Still. No sign of it budging, during or after either convention. It seems that the conventions haven’t convinced a measurable number of people to change their approval or disapproval of Obama.
In the national popular vote matchup of Obama versus Republican nominee Mitt Romney, the President’s lead has shrunk again in the past two weeks, manifesting itself in a continued topping out Obama and continued growth for Romney. The Romney growth last time came after announcing Ryan as his running mate, and it hasn’t stopped since. As I mentioned last time, we would normally expect the Vice President announcement bump to revert to the mean shortly thereafter, but that any such reversion would be obscured by the convention bump would expect. Thus far, this has met expectations. We’re still too early to see the effects of a convention bump from the Democratic National Convention from anyone but Gallup and Rasmussen, neither of whom have been particularly close to the polling averages. Real Clear Politics shows Obama up by a mere 0.7 points, which puts him in a better position than he was with respect to Senator John McCain on this date four years ago, when he was behind by a point. On the other hand, on this date in 2004 we were seeing polls close to the peak of the Republican Convention Bump, and as the effects of the Democratic Convention Bump were wearing off. By this date in 2004, Senator John Kerry’s was 6.4 points behind President George W. Bush, and he never got close after that.
Obama’s favorability polls have shifted in a strange way of late. Until recently, polls of “Americans” and “registered voters” were more favorable than those of “likely voters”. Now, about 50 percent of “likely voters” have a favorable view of the President, while about five percent fewer “registered voters” feel the same. The two recent “likely voters” polls suggest that his favorables are a point or two below 50 percent. Romney’s favorability polls haven’t changed in a statistically significant manner over the long haul; aside from two clear outliers (both from CNN/Opinion Research), he hasn’t broken 50 percent yet, regardless of the type of sample. Obama still has the edge here.
While these polls remain suggestive of an Obama victory, they are typically farther removed from the key signal of electoral votes than are many other indicators. We’ll hit the others down below.
As of yesterday, Intrade had Obama at 57.8, up a little over half a point from last time.
Overall, things still look decent for the incumbent President, but at the national level the outcome looks far from certain.
The Republican National Convention
Events in Tampa had a near comical level of error. Hurricane Isaac both cost Republicans a day of conventioning and created significant news distraction. Clint Eastwood both created a “WTF” moment and sucked the attention away from Mitt Romney, who should have been the spotlight story on the last day.
Meanwhile, Representative Paul Ryan’s (R–Janestopthiscrazything, WI) keynote address was so full of patent falsehoods that even Fox News had trouble finding nuggets of truth in it. Suddenly, the meme of “Ryan Lies” got legs, and even politically inconsequential stories like his marathon time became news.
On the plus side for 2016, the Republicans had a few solid potential candidates for President. We’ll see in another three years or so which among them can stand up to the level of scrutiny necessary to succeed in the grind of Presidential elections.
Throughout, the convention delegates seemed mostly bored, outside of the final hours of each day. Considering that those people are there because they went through a process designed to admit only the most enthusiastic partisans, that doesn’t bode particularly well for Romney. This is particularly true when one considers the longer story, wherein Romney battled past Donald Trump, Representative Michele Bachmann (R–Stillcrazy, MN), Texas Governor Rick Perry, Herman Cain, and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich. All of those were leading candidates at one point because so many in the Republican Party wanted anyone but Romney. And now that they’re stuck with him, the overall sentiment is something of mild indigestion. If the delegates, the most partisan of the partisan, can’t get enthused throughout three days, what does that say about the enthusiasm of the voters?
A candidate never wants to be in a position where winning requires that your voters hold their noses in the polling booth. In such a situation, many will be driven away from the booth altogether.
The Democratic National Convention
That’s not to say that the Democrats ran a perfect convention. The final day was moved from the football stadium to the basketball stadium. Whether it was due to weather or due to optics, it was a net negative. It would have been far better had the football stadium been the quiet backup plan.
Delegates in Charlotte were a more enthusiastic bunch than their Tampa counterparts. Of course, enthusiastic delegates doesn’t necessarily translate to an enthusiastic base, so this positive doesn’t carry as much weight as the Republican negative I outlined above.
Democrats had their share of good speakers as well, though clearly not as many serious 2016 contenders as the Republicans have. But San Antonio Mayor Julián Castro did give a solid speech.
Former President Bill Clinton did what he always does so well, with a speech full of data, particularly devoid of falsehoods (especially when compared to the Republican counterpart slot held by Ryan), and inspiring in its delivery. It had the unintended consequence of making Obama’s regular stump speech feel muted and flat in comparison. But it also had the intended consequence of illustrating the more complete story of Romney and Ryan’s economic proposals, and to an audience that exceeded that of the National Football League’s opening games, against which Clinton had to compete for live viewers.
Overall, the Democrats delivered a better convention, though not by orders of magnitude. Regardless, convention bumps have steadily been shrinking as campaigning has become a more constant sport, so it’s hard to imagine that either convention will have either a large or lasting impact on the electorate.
The Electoral College
This is the first September edition of Reëlection Watch. The Tossup and Leans bands have narrowed again, as they will twice more: once in the first October edition, and once in our final projections.
Here’s what the Electoral College looks like, based on current polling data:

Here are the states with new data since last time, covering only those discussed around the Internet as “leans” or “tossups”, from reddest to bluest:
- Missouri had a confusing set of polls last time, with two matching the “Leans Romney” trend, and two suggesting a tossup. Two new polls confirm the old trend. Public Policy Polling gave Romney a 12-point unadjusted lead (adjusting to 15 in theory, but I’m beginning to suspect that PPP isn’t as left-leaning these days as they used to be), while the Post-Dispatch/Mason-Dixon poll shows Romney with a seven-point lead. While I think PPP is overstating Romney’s edge here, I’m also confident enough in the overall historical trend to move Missouri into the “Likely Romney” column.
- North Carolina was polled by four firms five times in the past two weeks; one firm hit them twice. High Point/SurveyUSA ran a poll just before the conventions, and saw an unadjusted tie (which adjusts to a five-point lead for Romney). They ran another during the three days of the Republican National Convention, and found an additional three-point bump for Romney. Meanwhile Elon University/The Charlotte Observer ran one at the same time as SurveyUSA’s second poll, and saw a four-point Romney lead. Couple these with Public Policy Polling, who ran a poll in between the two conventions and came away with a tie (which adjusts to a three-point Romney lead), and North Carolina clearly “Leans Romney”. This is a shift from previous Reëlection Watches, which had tied the Tarheels to “Tossup”. I’ve been expecting to move it for a while, but sparse polling prevented it until now.
- Iowa finally saw another poll, just before the conventions, from Public Policy Polling. Their two-point unadjusted lead for Obama translates to basically a tie. No surprise there; Iowa has been tied between the two candidates for a long time, though primarily because of being polled infrequently, by few firms, and with a lot of noise in the data. Iowa is still at Tossup, and may well be so right up to the election.
- Florida is getting polled pretty heavily these days. Most recently, CNN/Time polled just before the Republican National Convention, and saw a four-point lead for Obama. Between the two conventions, Public Policy Polling and Gravis Marketing polled the state. PPP saw an unadjusted one-point Obama lead (adjusting to two in Romney’s favor), while Gravis saw a point for Romney. Those numbers indicate the expected convention bump. Based on historical trends, after both conventions’ bumps dissipate, we’ll be pretty much where we started, with the noise so overwhelming the signal that the tiny edge Obama has over the long haul is barely discernible. Florida remains a “Tossup”. Still. One thing to keep in mind is that the number of undecideds has been falling steadily in Florida. The battle for the middle is all but done here.
- Colorado was polled twice in the past two weeks. Public Policy Polling’s pre-convention poll saw Obama with a three-point unadjusted lead (which adjusts to a tie), while the Democratic Party-funded Keating poll, conducted between the two conventions, saw a four-point lead for the incumbent. Real Clear Politics averages the trend into a 2.3-point Obama lead, but I’m not convinced, since there are too many left-leaning pollsters in their current mix in Colorado. I think Obama has a small edge, but not as big as RCP thinks, at least for the period before the Democratic National Convention. Colorado remains on the blue side of the middle, but within the newly-narrowed Tossup range.
- Virginia was polled only once since last time, by Rasmussen, who saw an unadjusted tie, which adjusts to a one-point lead for Obama. The poll was conducted before either convention, so it has only the Ryan Bump in it. Virginia is still on the blue side of a Tossup, and I don’t expect any additional red tint between now and our next installment.
- Nevada got polled by Public Policy Polling, whose pre-convention poll indicated a three-point unadjusted (one point adjusted) lead for Obama. With the Ryan Bump included in that poll, and the typical reversion to the mean that follows a Vice Presidential Announcement Bump, I don’t see any reason to move Nevada from its current “Leans Obama” designation.
- Ohio got polled twice in the last two weeks. The Columbus Dispatch’s pre-convention “likely voter” poll showed a tie, while Gravis Marketing’s “registered voter” poll between the two conventions gave Romney the edge by three (which should translate to about five or six points in Romneys favor in a “likely voter” model). Unfortunately, we don’t have enough data to discern any house bias from these two, and Ohio’s polling has long been noisy. If the polls had come from agencies with a bigger track record, they’d carry more weight in our model, and probably push Ohio back into the “Tossup” column. But they don’t, and so our model is keeping Ohio in “Leans Obama”. That could change in the next round, but that depends on how the convention bumps smooth out in the next two weeks.
- New Hampshire wasn’t polled in the past two weeks, either. Tellingly, though, the Romney campaign is keeping their advertising campaign intact here. For this reason, I moved New Hampshire from below Wisconsin on this list, to now above Michigan. But we still have no new polling data, so there’s no reason to move New Hampshire out of the “Leans Obama” column.
- Michigan had two new polls in the past two weeks. I told you last time that the Baydoun/Foster poll was an obvious outlier, and that was corroborated by the new data. EPIC-MRA’s poll, conducted during the first “real” day of the Republican National Convention, saw a three-point lead for Obama, while Public Policy Polling saw Obama up by seven unadjusted (four adjusted) points in the days between the two conventions. By themselves, these two polls wouldn’t give us much to go on. But the broader trend is unmistakeable. It appears that the Romney campaign staffers see the same thing; they pulled all advertising from Michigan late this week. Michigan is still a “Leans Obama” state, but I expect it to move to “Likely Obama” in the next installment.
- Wisconsin hasn’t been polled in the last two weeks, to my surprise. But, like in Michigan, Romney’s campaign has elected not to include Wisconsin in the latest round of advertising. Wisconsin remains in the “Leans Obama” column, but I suspect the next round of polls will push it into “Likely Obama”.
- Pennsylvania also hasn’t been polled in the past two weeks, again to my surprise. And, like Wisconsin, Romney has chosen not to run his latest round of advertising here. Also like Wisconsin, Pennsylvania remains in “Leans Obama”, but only because we’re waiting for another round of polls.
In the past two weeks, fewer states of interest were polled than in the two prior weeks. North Carolina and Missouri have both shifted one column to the right. No states changed sides or moved into the “Tossup” group. Obama still ends up with a likely 275 electoral votes, based on my projection. That’s now eight consecutive weeks where Obama could lose all tossups and still stay in the White House.
Conclusion
Romney’s Ryan Bump seems to have peaked and fallen. It’s too early to tell if there’s any sticky bump from either convention. Until we see something looking like a stick on the Republican side, and a slide on the Democratic, the Electoral College remains in Obama’s court.
If I had to predict an Electoral College result, I’d keep things exactly where they have been for the past eight weeks. Romney would win Florida, and Obama would win the other tossups. I don’t see enough structural advantage for Romney in those to give him the edge that he’d have in Florida. That prediction would give Obama 303, and Romney 235. In that scenario, Obama would be 62 votes shy of his 2008 tally.
How do you feel about these predictions? Do you differ on them? If so, how, where, and why?
Related articles
- Obama Approval Rating Jumps 10 Points After Democratic Convention (politicususa.com)
- Obama’s Odds of Reëlection Increase After Romney’s Acceptance Speech (politicususa.com)
- Democrats launch Obama on rocky road to reëlection (newsinfo.inquirer.net)
- Hill Poll: Voters say second term undeserved, country is worse off (thehill.com)
- Of bounces, bumps, polls and dead cats (wellthisiswhatithink.wordpress.com)

This entry was posted by Michael Weiss on September 8, 2012 at 3:00 am, and is filed under Reelection Watch. Follow any responses to this post through RSS 2.0.You can leave a response or trackback from your own site.
-
#2 written by Max 8 months ago
Michael,
Just a question. Why do you continue to state: “Obama would be 62 votes shy of his 2008 tally”? If Obama won EVERY state he did in 2008, he still would not equal his 2008 EV.
Also, the RCP chart and your prose have a contradiction. You SAY O +0.7, which was correct before RCP updated the chart (that you show). And the Gallup number should be in in the next couple hours, changing it yet again.
-
#3 written by rgbact 8 months ago
I agree, I don’t get the point of stating Obama is 62 votes shy of 2008. So? Anyway, your prediction is fine, with the caveat that its based on a ton of uncertainty. I’m curious as to how people seem to be pushing the “this thing is over” meme based on the smallest of margins. As I stated before, Bush won in 2004 by the “huge” margin of 2.4% and I remember being glued to the Ohio results to see if he would squeek through. Credible pollsters like Zogby were picking Kerry to win on election day. Now it seems leads of 1% or so are treated like lock down certainties and serious people are saying “how can anyone’s mind be changed”. Meanwhile, Obama gives a speech and sees his approval rate jump like 7% in 2 days. Gee, it seems people can actually change their minds. Frankly, I think anything <3% is a crapshoot and the data junkies are assuming certainty that just doesn’t exist.
Anyway, I’m still at 295 for Romney.
-
Max,
I’ve been comparing the electoral vote counts because it is a point of comparison. Yes, unless Obama picks up an additional state, he can’t possibly match his previous tally.As to the RCP national average, the chart is live, not a snapshot. The article text, on the other hand, is a snapshot of late yesterday.
-
#5 written by channelclemente 8 months ago
Since I’ve prewarned people that Baseball and life, particularly political life have a lot in common, the issue of modeling and forecasting have a dominant position in both. So much for my POV, now about forecasting. RCP does an admirable job, but in the end, beyond the graphics, just becomes a poll of polls, which is akin to be a mean of means, among data sets. That’s better than any single poll, but it not really useful when compared to what folks like Nate Silver are doing.
It’s not so much Nate Silver that is the issue, but his methodology. By that I mean, his probabilistic approach is what the inside the campaign crew use themselves. So, if one wants to understand, and maybe anticipate THERE moves and not Faux News or MSNBC’s coming spin on it, Silver may be the only place to get that insight, because of his methodology.
That methodology is a derivative of PECOTA ( Player Empirical Comparison and Optimization Test Algorithm). To this day, the algorithm is secret. However, it relies on taking all the data points from polls, both local, state, and national, weighting them as to their reliability and significance and combining them algebraically in a unique way. The electoral college probability of winning is the addition Silver revealed from 2008 that let him predict outcomes accurately, and saved MSNBC from that exit poll fiasco that torpedoed a lot of networks in the 2006 midterms. In any case, if you’re inclined.…here is the baseball publication that alludes to the methodology (2004) that hastened Silvers departure from the world of The Game to mundane politics.
The graphs really tell the story. And let me say parenthetically, Go Giants, Beat LA!
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2659 -
#7 written by WA7th 8 months ago
-
#9 written by rgbact 8 months ago
CC–
I agree with alot. However, I just read a quote from
Zogby about his wrong call in 2004. He stated he had stopped being a
pollster and had become a predictor. Like Nate is. Now modeling
expectation of behavior is fun and possibly informative, but at the end
of the day, as in baseball, you’ve got to play the game. What modeler
can predict that the DNC convention would have greater appeal than the
RNC? Who can model how the debates will be received or whether Romney’s
ads will have greater messaging. At a minimum,lets stop this silly
notion that people don’t change their minds. Did a couple speeches by
Clinton and Obama have some effect on people or not. -
Here’s my Electoral Map for this week.
After several weeks of recounts and legal wrangling, the Supreme Court steps in and declares a winner…
Oh, wait.
-
#11 written by channelclemente 8 months ago
rgbact,
I don’t think I’d dispute your general point, BUT, Silver’s modeling, because of its specific probabilistic and not statistical approach, incorporates flux from one camp to the other as a measurable, dynamic variable. What he is doing is very sophisticated and what you and I see as trends in local or region polls, he incorporates into what are now differential power functions expressing rates of information flow, and ad impact, geography and counter strategy impact. Because of the method, Silver is showing a ~20% increase in the probability of Obama’s relection since June, if you look at the trend line. It’s currently a skoosh below 80%.
-
#12 written by Max 8 months ago
-
#13 written by channelclemente 8 months ago
-
#14 written by channelclemente 8 months ago
Interesting graphic representation of the various parameters that define the state of the US economy. I’d summarize it as good progress on a work in process. I knew 2007–2009 was a mess, but what a mess.
http://www.businessinsider.com/are-you-better-off-than-4-years-ago-charts-2012–9
-
Great chart, channelclemente.
It looks like what happened was that Bush set the economic clock back to something like 2005. Since Obama got into office, the economy has been growing again at about the rate it does historically.
So the question about whether we’re better off now than we were four years ago is — hell, yeah.
-
#16 written by channelclemente 8 months ago
An aside,
sure the climate isn’t changing…the was a tornado in NY City.
http://www.businessinsider.com/this-tornado-touched-down-off-the-coast-of-new-york-city-this-afternoon-2012–9 -
#17 written by rgbact 8 months ago
-
#18 written by WA7th 8 months ago
OK, here’s rgb’s 295 map.
channelclemente — Romney and the Rove/Koch superpacs have pulled their adds from WI and Michigan.
I think it’s premature to assume Wisconsin is out of play until we see some more recent polling. -
#20 written by channelclemente 8 months ago
-
rgbact,
With respect to the changing margins, keep in mind that the number of undecideds has been shrinking over time. Aside from the statistical noise, most of the variance I’ve been seeing comes from the undecideds turning into decideds.You may think that anything under 3% is a crap shoot, but that would be because you don’t see how aggregating a bunch of polls has the effect of shrinking the margins down to 1% or less…if there are enough of them.
Even voter suppression techniques won’t move the needle by 3%, but it can get over 1% if multiple techniques are used in concert. That’s why I still give Florida to Romney. I have also been watching Ohio to see if there’s enough going on there to move it. Pennsylvania is to far gone for those actions to help Romney, though.
-
#24 written by channelclemente 8 months ago
-
#25 written by channelclemente 8 months ago
The most interesting economics article I’ve read in some time. It deals with what the Japanese “stagnant economy” has actually become, and ought to settle once and for all that government economies bear absolutely no relationship beyond the word ‘money’ to household economies. A tidbit…the debt to GDP ratio in Japan is 250%. It also suggests the rational behind carefully managed quantitative easing by a central bank. A lot to digest.
-
channelclemente, thank you for that article on Japan.
If I hear one more conservative commenter or commentator complain that America has too-high a debt-to-GDP ratio, I just might kill something. It’s like complaining that a bicycle has more pressure in its tires as compared to a car or an airplane. (Bikes typically are around 45 PSI, cars about 35, big tractors maybe 15.) The point is, different circumstances result in a given metric meaning different things.
Japan is doing great, economically, even with 230% debt-to-GDP. America could learn a thing or three.
-
The bounce is strengthening. Obama’s lead over Romney widens to 4 points at Rasmussen today and his job approval at Ras increased this morning to 52, matching Gallup’s (which means, given the Ras house effect, that Gallup may be even higher today.)
Obama has not been at 52 with Ras for more than three years (not even during the bin Laden bump.)
Ras says (teasing his “Platinum Service,” where you can see the cross-tabs if you’re willing to pay) that Obama now shows “significant strengthening in the age 40–64 group.”
If David Gregory does a proper job of journalistic probing with Romney today on MTP, this thing could just about be over.
-
Treme… LOL.
I can think of at least 20 more.
** Do you think you will have an unfair advantage in making those tough presidential decisions because your brain is not addled by caffeine and nicotine?
** Really… how DO you get your hair to look that good?
** Few people realize that dressage is actually a very manly and intense sport. Could you spend our remaining four or five minutes explaining its intricacies for us?
-
#32 written by DrFunguy 8 months ago
Romney today:
““I say we’re going to replace Obamacare. And I’m replacing it with my own plan. And even in Massachusetts when I was governor, our plan there deals with pre-existing conditions and with young people,” Romney told “Meet the Press.“
Vs. Romney in JuneOn the day the Supreme Court upheld the Obama law in June, Romney said the American people must vote the president out of office in order to “get rid of Obamacare.”
-
-
isn’t it remarkable how Romney wants to keep the popular parts, but
not the parts necessary to make the popular parts possible?
Indeed. A chicken in every pot, AND an end to poultry factories! -
It looks like Romney’s MTP appearance has rattled conservatives. His numbers are suddenly in quite a steep slide at Intrade.
The wingers are still counting on the debates, which are now pretty much their last hope. (Chuck Todd thinks the FIRST debate is their last hope because if Romney does poorly on that one, the other two won’t matter.)
So, let’s say Romney does poorly on the debates and disappoints his supporters again (a reasonable prediction, since that’s pretty much what he always does.) Let’s further say that Joe Biden holds his own against Ryan and manages, with his sly avuncular humor, to make the younger guy look like a brash young pup who has a bit of a problem with that truthiness thing.
In that event, here’s my question for all you obsessive maps-and-numbers guys.
If the debates are not a success for the GOP, the outcome of the election will of course not be in doubt… but what do you think the electoral college would look like? Could Obama then come close to matching his 2008 numbers?
-
fili asks,
If the debates are not a success for the GOP, the outcome of the election will of course not be in doubt… but what do you think the electoral college would look like? Could Obama then come close to matching his 2008 numbers?
Reasonable question, but the President is operating within a pretty narrow band.
Let’s take all states where President Obama has a 5% chance of taking the state (that is, a one in twenty chance), according to Nate. The map would look like this:
The inverse map, where Governor Romney has a 5% or better chance and wins:
I picked 5% because that’s the usual confidence interval for scientists (the term of art is p < 0.05). The next state to go with the President in his landslide scenario is Georgia (4%). The next state to go with Romney in his landslide scenario is Minnesota (4%).
-
Just as an aside, if you take Nate’s forecast model and select what I would call a true battleground state, one where there is between a 2⁄3 chance that Obama will win and a 2⁄3 chance that Romney will win, you get a long long list of states: two.
Florida and North Carolina.
As Nate’s model stands right now, anything changing outside of those two is unlikely. To get 11 battleground states, as one finds on the generally accepted map, you have to extend the probability to about 15%, or 1 in 7. Another reason why I think the election coverage is ginned up to make the Koch Brothers spend more money on ultimately useless advertising.
That is, there is a very good chance the map will look like this, according to Nate Silver’s model:
-
-
Monotreme,
It matches what I’ve been saying, so I figure it’s probably real. If Romney blows the debates, he might not be able to take Florida. North Carolina is a lost cause for Obama. And that leaves us with little wiggle room.It’s been two months since I saw a credible threat from Romney, barring some external game changer like a stock market crash.
-
@Treme… Head fake or real despair?
I think it’s real despair. You can see it everywhere today at conservative sites. Look how the Freepers are reacting to current polling.
If you read their comments you can see them swinging between defiance, denial and despair. Also they have already begun what wingers always do when they are losing an election… they are positioning themselves to blame the media.
-
MW and all,
You can really see from that map where the “332 spike” in Nate’s data comes from. The states I put on the #37 map plus Florida make 332. So the most likely outcomes are 303 (#37 map), 318 (#37 map plus NC), 332 (#37 map plus FL), and 347 (#37 map plus both FL and NC).Since FL would go Obama well before NC, I think 318 is pretty unlikely (it hardly registers at all in this histogram) but you can clearly see the 303, 332 and 347 spikes. -
#44 written by dawolf 8 months ago
-
@wolf… I wonder about their grip on reality.
They not only don’t have a grip on reality, they barely have a nodding acquaintance with it.
You must remember that more than half of these people believe Obama is a stooge for “The Communists” (whoever THEY are) and has been maneuvered into power to change America into a socialist hell and economic wasteland.
And those are the smart ones. The rest believe he is a foreign-born Muslim super-secret agent who was trained and groomed by Al Qaeda, then funded by them to win the presidency and preside over a worldwide caliphate. (The fact that he’s killed dozens of top Al Qaeda operatives is apparently just part of his deep cover. )
And yet… this monster is beating them at the polls! It makes them so crazy that, as you observe, they truly are becoming quite fragile and dangerous. If they lose this one, I fear there will be some bad things happening in America soon afterward.
-
I suspect the Veep debate and the Oct 3 debate will be the Republican candidates repeating some of the Ryin’ Lies, plus a bunch of random insults — and Uncle Joe and President Obama systematically taking them apart.
Obama will (of course) keep his cool. It will be the master chessplayer vs. the used car salesman.
Biden will be offended on behalf of the President and the American people, defending them both from a flood of manipulative disinformation. Clarence Darrow vs Draco Malfoy.
On the plus side (okay, plus-er), both Romney and Ryan will have their political futures destroyed. Ryan may continue for years as the representative for his little district, but no one’s going to take him seriously any more. His reputation for being a serious policy wonk has been forever destroyed by his decision to accept the VP slot next to Guy Smiley.
-
@DC… His reputation for being a serious policy wonk has been forever
destroyed by his decision to accept the VP slot next to Guy Smiley.Reeling off a string of giant whoppers didn’t help, either. Norah O’Donnell asked him this morning why his boasting of a sub-3 marathon wasn’t similar to Al Gore’s claim that he invented the Internet. Ouch. Not the kind of stuff you want out there tarnishing your “serious policy wonkishness.”
And… as DC says… probably the end of a promising political career.
These people just never listen to Shakespeare. “There is a tide in the affairs of men...” You have to know when to reach for the brass ring… and when to stay tight in the saddle of your little carousel horse for a few more rounds.
-
-
#49 written by DrFunguy 8 months ago
-
DC,
the Oct 3 debate will be the Republican candidates repeating some of the Ryin’ Lies
It will be interesting to see how that plays out. If Obama gets to counter Romney’s claims, I can’t imagine any wrong data will go unchallenged. Granted, there are plenty who will believe Romney regardless (witness what you see on FreeRepublic and RedState). But how well will it play with those who can be swayed one way or the other?
-
filistro,
Norah O’Donnell asked him this morning why his boasting of a sub-3 marathon wasn’t similar to Al Gore’s claim that he invented the Internet.
Especially since Gore didn’t even make that claim.
-
#52 written by Armchair Warlord 8 months ago
-
filistro,
Reeling off a string of giant whoppers didn’t help, either.
Yes. I think, however, that being Romney’s Veep pick sort of obligated Ryan to tell those whoppers. Not that he wouldn’t have otherwise, just that it wouldn’t have been noticed. Republicans can’t help but lie, because the actual data is against them. But as a relatively obscure (though ambitious) boring alleged wonk within a caucus of more colorful loonies, media attention wouldn’t have been drawn to Ryan.
In order to justify being Romney’s pick, and to advance Romney’s cause in the only way open to him, Ryan had to do some attack-dog stuff. And since Obama’s actual record is impressive, whereas Republicans cannot run on their own destructive and obstructionist record, Ryan had to produce a string of lies.
His hope was that the stenographers of the press pool would have simply reported it — or done a “some Democrats dispute a few boring wonky details of Ryan’s speech” on-the-one-handism, while also (in an attempt to be fair and balanced) done their best to find nitpicks with Democratic statements as well. The combination of journalistic incompetence and false-equivalence argument has served Republicans well up until now. How could he have known this one time he’d be called on it?
-
Norah O’Donnell asked him this morning why his boasting of a sub-3
marathon wasn’t similar to Al Gore’s claim that he invented the
Internet.
Especially since Gore didn’t even make that claim.Exactly. Ryan could have said, “It’s different because in Gore’s case, Republicans invented the charge in order to embarrass Gore, whereas in my case, I really did lie about my accomplishments.” But I wouldn’t expect Ryan to describe the actual difference.
-
#55 written by DrFunguy 8 months ago
Armchair
I also remember several weeks of all Rev. Wright all the time during the 2008 campaign…What Liberal Media?
-
Simon Jackman (super wonk) is seeing a pretty big bump.
He also agrees with most of our super wonks right here in this room:
But based on (a) the available state-level polls; (b) modeling that
links national and state-level polling, I estimate that Obama’s current
position translates into about 308 Electoral College votes.He also agrees with what I said last week:
Two “set pieces” of the campaign are behind us: the Veep announcement
and the conventions. Neither produced a sizeable shift towards Romney,
at least in the national polling. Romney may be running out of
opportunities to sway public opinion his way. -
-
I disagree. They don’t have to. What bugs me is that they are choosing to.
Yes, Republicans could run on honestly bragging about their ability to stop legislation. They prevented many of the President’s policies from being enacted. Gitmo is still open, the Bush tax cuts are still in place, the American Jobs Act was blocked, and the US credit rating was downgraded, for example. Republicans could run on that, if they wanted to.
-
#59 written by turrboenvy 8 months ago
What we need for the debates is real-time fact checking. Since most of the lies (or half-truths) we’ll hear at the debates have already been checked, we just need a couple people with knowledge of the facts and a big red button.
The speaking candidate lies, boom, hit the button.
“My opponent has gutted the welfare work requirement–” [BZZZRT!]
The podium lights up red, so the candidate knows they’ve been caught.
“Mitt Romney ‘says the Arizona immigration law should be a model for the nation–’”[BZZZRT!]
“In the past three years, we’ve added enough new oil and gas pipeline to circle the Earth and then some.” [DING!]Picturing Moe Szyslak on the lie detector? Me too!
-
@turbo.. I like your idea of real time fact-checking, but I would suggest one small modification.
I think instead of sitting nearby with a big red button, the fact-checker should be standing quietly onstage with a propane torch. Every time a candidate lies, his pants are actually set on fire.
It would do wonders for politics, wouldn’t it?
-
#61 written by turrboenvy 8 months ago
-
#64 written by Max 8 months ago
Paddy Power today moved Romney from 7–4 down to 15–8, leaving Obama, for now, at 4–11.
So $1.00 Romney bets now pay $1.87 instead of $1.75, while Obama still pays 37c.
Several bookies now have Obama @ 1–3 and Romney @ 2–1.
Last week there were four states with 1% in the RCP average. The other two have not been polled since before the GOPCon.
-
#65 written by dawolf 8 months ago
-
#66 written by Max 8 months ago
-
#67 written by dawolf 8 months ago
-
#68 written by Max 8 months ago
-
#71 written by turrboenvy 8 months ago
Voting should be as easy as picking a cup when you get your morning coffee. It would immensely increase turnout. Every voter gets a free card, every convenience store has a machine (like the lotto machine). Swipe the card, place your vote, buy a coffee and off you go. Security is obviously an issue, but the lotto seems to manage.
We could use fingerprint identification. We don’t even need to validate that the person is who they say they are — you only have one thumb print so you can only vote once. Your thumbprint goes in the system the first time you vote.
Anyway, the shocking thing at 7-election is that Vermont, of all places, is tied.
As an aside, I’ve got 2 problems in commenting. I’m using Chrome 21.
1) I have no reply button that I can find.
2) My linebreaks get screwed up (I hit enter once or twice) so I have to hit edit and edit the HTML manually. -
#72 written by rgbact 8 months ago
Interesting chart on Gallup that measures convention bounces. Obama’s bounce wasn’t that big, its just that Romney’s is the only negative bounce besides John Kerry, so the net change was a tad bigger than recent history. The bigger bounce isn’t very correlated to the eventual winner though.
-
#73 written by DrFunguy 8 months ago
Quote of the day, from the inimitable Pierce, National Treasure:
“Mitt Romney has been elected to only one office in his lifetime. In that one office, he has one significant achievement. And to be nominated by his party, he has had to strangle rhetorically his darling.“
Read more: http://www.esquire.com/features/life-under-romneycare-1012#ixzz26DWAVvCc -
You must be logged in to post a comment. - Comment Feed for this Post
About Michael Weiss (322 posts)
Michael is a jack of many trades, and master of a few. His varied background includes government and private businesses, both large and small. His experience in the financial services and computer industries has led him to computer security.







Polls beginning to show a fairly significant convention bump for Obama. Freepers react.