Governing through Reason
Open Mic October 12
Romney Rampant.
The one and only Vice-Presidential debate of the 2012 election season was held this week. In the polls, Obama’s convention bounce dissipated, and Romney is Rampant. Still, the Senate looks like a Democratic hold and the House looks like a Republican hold. No one is looking at the fiscal cliff, but it’s still there. The second Presidential debate is Tuesday: will it be an unmitigated disaster for either participant? It’s 25 days until the election. What will happen between now and then?
Don’t see an article on a particular topic, but want to talk about it somewhere? This is Open Mic. Talk about whatever you want, but stay respectful.
We create a new Open Mic every week to give a clean slate, but feel free to add to this topic at any time.
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#102 written by shortchain 7 months ago
Mule,
The Great Depression both produced people who were leery of borrowing and also banks who were leery of lending without adequate collateral. That kept people from indulging in the kind of credit-fueled overindulgence you are so critical of.
You would know that, if you weren’t so pathetically ignorant. But then, in that case, you wouldn’t be you, because it’s practically a defining characteristic: ignorance and arrogance.
I’m going to ignore you again now, until you grow up or I feel like pointing out another idiocy. I’m pretty sure we all know which one will happen first. Have a good evening.
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#103 written by channelclemente 7 months ago
Mark Zandi when asked on CNN basically came out and grudgingly admitted Romney’s numbers don’t add up. Mark Zandi is the Chief Economist at Moodys and McCain’s former economics adviser. When I read Zandi’s comments about Romney adjusting his plan, I wondered if that telegraphed his debate strategy.
“ Yeah, I think the Tax Policy Center study is the definitive study. They’re non-partisan, they’re very good. They say given the numbers that they’ve been provided by the Romney campaign, no, it will not add up. Now, the Romney campaign could adjust their plan. They could say okay I’m not going to lower tax rates as much as I’m saying right now and they could make the arithmetic work. But under the current plan, with the current numbers, no it doesn’t. I’ll say one other thing, though. I think it is important that we do focus on the so-called tax expenditures in the tax code. Those are the deductions, and credits, and loopholes in the code. We need to reduce those, because if we do we’re going to make the tax system fairer, easier to understand and ultimately lead to stronger growth. So that’s the right place to focus. But, no, the arithmetic doesn’t work as it is right now.”
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#104 written by channelclemente 7 months ago
I have what some may interpret as a rude question about Mule and his contribution to the discussion here. Is his role among the discussants here that of a catalyst or mountebank for argument’s sake? Please don’t take that as a critique, I’m honestly curious. Some of you are impossibly indulgent, and I commend you for that.
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#106 written by shortchain 7 months ago
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#108 written by Max 7 months ago
MW,
Then why, under the moderation policy, do you not publicly reprimand Mule more often?
As I’ve said to him, “You choose the path on which we walk.” When he comes out of the gate with his snot-slinging, and is answered in kind, then you are wrong to reprimand the person giving the second hit.
On this I have to stand with shortchain. Be consistent. Every time.
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Max,
Then why, under the moderation policy, do you not publicly reprimand Mule more often?
When I catch them I just delete them without comment. And then he blames DC. When I don’t catch them it’s typically because I’m not monitoring the comments because of being away.
Be consistent. Every time.
I try, but it’s hard sometimes. When a comment has a mixture of attacks on ideas and people, and I get to the conversation after all of the idea attacks have been rebutted, deleting the comments would destroy the flow. When I have more time, I edit the comments to strip out the personal attacks. But that level of granularity takes considerably more time, and I can’t do it from a mobile device. For the past month, my moderation time has been particularly short. The site has demanded more work on the back end (both in writing articles and managing the technical stuff), and my non–Logarchism activities have also demanded more of my time. And it’s only going to get worse for me as we approach early November.
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Part of why Mule gets away with it is that a great percentage of his attacks are directed at me. I am indulgent, because insults tend to roll off me like rain on a duck. I’ve been attacked by professionals, and Mule is definitely no better than an amateur. Plus, I am of the opinion that someone who so readily resorts to such scatological arguments presents his or her position in a most unfavorable light — and I don’t mind conservativism being represented by feces-throwing monkeys. Plus, Mule and I have an agreement, that one day, one of us will spring for Glenlivet and the other will buy the Gurkhas.
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#111 written by Max 7 months ago
MW and dc,
I understand in both cases.
It just sets a bad precedent. And then, once the snot starts flying (sorry, mc), the appearance of handing the SECOND guy the kleenex, instead of pinching the nose of the first to do so, even belatedly, seems to be bad form.
Anyway, we got bigger nasal cavities to plug! Onward!!!
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#112 written by shortchain 7 months ago
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#113 written by dawolf 7 months ago
@MW
In this case, I think you could have said “both of you need to stop” and that would have been fair. Picking out one not the other, and specifically picking out the one who responded, wasn’t right IMO. Mule gets a ridiculous amount of leeway and sc didn’t say anything that I haven’t read worse from Mule dozens and dozens of times before.
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#115 written by Mule Rider 7 months ago
“Are you ignoring me on purpose?“
No.…I’ve been a little busy, and there was a lot material here to try and collect my thoughts on.…I think the debate has subtly shifted to whether or not our current debt load is sustainable rather than whether or not you can compare how the government handles its finances with an individual. I think the FDR blog was made a couple of fair points, but far too much of it was just a meandering string of factoids (with a few insults.…funny how the guy comes firing right out of the gate and calls out anyone even considering the comparison a “demagogue”.….yeah, that really makes me think he’s being fair and rational and giving it an honest/impartial look) and straw men and makes a rather weak case as to why comparisons are incompatible.
But it’s a moot point anyway. It’s clear from the past 15 or so comments that i’ve jumped the shark here. Amazing that CC can continue to insinuate I’m nothing more than a caged animal that’s good only for entertainment purposes but he can sit there in post after post after post not responding to the substance in ANY ONE of my posts and in the next breath pretend he’s serious and intelligent. And there’s nothing left to say about where I stand with shortchain. But it’s abundantly clear there’s not enough room for all of us here. And since I know they’re not going anywhere and they align much better with the perverted worldview that’s being touted here, i’ll gladly move on with my life and never come back.
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#116 written by shortchain 7 months ago
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#117 written by shortchain 7 months ago
Before I go, I’ll leave you with a report from the front lines of the effort to build a libertarian utopia. Apparently, some of the promoters of libertarianism have concluded that you can’t have both democracy and a libertarian economy.
Interesting, if true.
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#118 written by channelclemente 7 months ago
shortchain,
von Mises champion of the libertarian ideals…Benito Mussolini
“It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aimed at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has for the moment saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history.”
Hayek’s hero of libertarian ideals.….Augusto Pinochet.
“My personal preference,” he told a Chilean interviewer, “leans toward a liberal [i.e. libertarian] dictatorship rather than toward a democratic government devoid of liberalism.” Hayek
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Mule,
I do find it curious that you find the time to respond to everyone except me, and that when I ask you why you don’t respond to me, you initially claim to be too busy, and then follow it up with a “see ya”…only to return at some later time when the argument has blown over.I could understand that happening on occasion, but it has been far too consistent to continue to appear a mere coincidence.
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#120 written by channelclemente 7 months ago
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#122 written by Mule Rider 7 months ago
“I do find it curious that you find the time to respond to everyone except me, and that when I ask you why you don’t respond to me, you initially claim to be too busy, and then follow it up with a “see ya”…only to return at some later time when the argument has blown over.
I could understand that happening on occasion, but it has been far too consistent to continue to appear a mere coincidence.”
A couple things. You don’t engage me with near the regularity as some of the others, namely DC and Max. So don’t pretend like you’ve provided me an equal amount of material to comb over/through and respond to as they do/have. And how many times has a mêlée broke out in a thread with me locked in an argument from some of the other regulars in a thread, and I specifically request YOU to step in and comment.…and there’ve been several times you’ve never shown up or just peeked in with a “nothing more to add” (more on that later) or you’re so late to the game that I’ve already exhausted too much emotional/intellectual energy to keep fighting. Lastly, when you do rebut, rarely does it draw a strong contrast to me anyway, as if our positions are only slightly tilted against one another rather than completely orthogonal. So I’m left in that “nothing more to add” mindset myself, content to politely agree to disagree on our sometimes subtle differences. That I seem to dig my heels in longer with the others is that the differences are far more stark, and they seem to double-down on the left-wing insanity (or insults) all the more.
“Just kidding, but his reaction is reminiscent of a 13 year old’s reaction to a male parent.”
Only a simpleton would trot out a childish “ooooooh, he owned you!” taunt, and in the same breath try and label someone else as being juvenile. You try so hard to project this image of confidence and intellect, but these regular amateurish displays expose you for the fraud you are.
Anyway, get it all out now, guys and dolls. Final words and thoughts. Shortchain, there really is no need for you to go anywhere. I can promise you this is my last day ever to participate at Logarchism.com.
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#123 written by mostlyilurk 7 months ago
Shortchain, I too would hate to see you go and would hope that you’d reconsider. I also don’t believe that the rules of this site have been enforced uniformly. I recognize that moderators are busy. I also recognize the value of dissenting opinions. However, none of that changes the fact that certain posters are given far more leeway than others.
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#125 written by channelclemente 7 months ago
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#126 written by dawolf 7 months ago
Mule, you’re clearly a fairly intelligent guy, and I do think having a different point of view is very valuable. You offer an interesting counterpoint view.
However, you need to become more civil (much more civil, actually). It leads to irritation on every side.
So, I’d ask that you reconsider and stay, on the proviso that you do make serious efforts to become more civil. If you are going to continue being rude then others will continue being rude to you: inevitably leading to someone leaving for good sooner or later.
Your choice.
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#127 written by Mule Rider 7 months ago
I want my last post at logarchism.com to be completely apolotical.…
Go Cardinals!!!
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#129 written by dawolf 7 months ago
@MR
“I want my last post at logarchism.com to be completely apolotical.….…“
Ah, of all the posts to have a typo.…
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#130 written by rgbact 7 months ago
Mule–
I’d suggest maybe coming back refreshed post elections. I think youre at your best when debating serious issues. Unfortunately, given the impending elections, threads contain less policy content and more election cheerleading than normal. I admit its tough to take sometimes and its easy to lose your cool. Once elections are over, there should be a return to more debates on policy (especially if Romney wins) so more to discuss for those that aren’t into the game of poll watching.Or Obama will win and we go right back to gridlock and start cheerleading for the next election.
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#131 written by channelclemente 7 months ago
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#132 written by channelclemente 7 months ago
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Mule,
If you think this issue in the modern United States isn’t a bigger problem than it’s been anywhere else in the world at any time, you’re just as unforgivingly ignorant as shortchain.
Even the most casual perusal of history reveals that you’re incorrect. There have always been reliable individuals, and there have always been conmen. There have always been prophets, and there have always been religious hucksters. And in every century, the older folks complain that the next generation is sending the world straight to hell. Even the conviction that “What’s happening now is unprecedented!” is entirely routine.