I suspect I mean the same as Obama when he said “the greatest”.

What do you think he meant by it?

You may be correct. Historically, whenever any nation or religion or race or philosophy proclaims itself “the best”, they have used that as an excuse to stomp on and conquer and subjugate any– and everyone else.

I am willing to allow Grog to explain what he means by “the greatest”, because that term clearly has no objective meaning, since it does not define the scale or the context. The greatest militarily? Scientifically? Humanitarian-ly?  In some vague moral sense? I truly don’t know what sort of field of data Grog is using in his assessment of America as “the greatest.” I want to find out.

I truly have no answer, because I don’t know what the ques­tion means.

My sense is that the question has meaning only within the context of jingoism. Sort of like channelclemente rooting for the Giants. There’s nothing wrong with that per se, but it’s important to be able to step back from it and recognize it for what it is. Because those who are unable to do so often find themselves committing unspeakable acts based upon such beliefs.

Do you believe that as a librul pro­gres­sive?  Do you believe we’re the
great­est coun­try in the world and that we have been the great­est source of good the world has ever known?  Is that in line with your
pro­gres­sive ideals?

Be aware — I don’t say the following as “a librul pro­gres­sive”. I say it as a historian and a philosopher. I don’t pretend to know how any other “librul pro­gres­sives” would feel about the question, and I am not going to pretend to answer for anyone else. My views only.

As I’ve said, I have no opinion whatever on the question you’re asking. To me, it’s a meaningless question (on the same order as, “How heavy is the sky?”).

I don’t know what “greatest country in the world” means (“great” in what sense? by what measure? are the units in pounds or hectares? which aspects are you looking at?). Nor do I know what “greatest source of good” means (define “source” and “good”; I don’t have a workable definition for either of those words in this context).

We have never had a playwright to compare to Shakespeare, nor a composer on the order of Beethoven. Does that figure into how “great” we are, or how much “good” we have “sourced”? I don’t know, and I wouldn’t know how to calculate it.

Nor do I have the first clue what difference the answer to the question would make.

I’m sorry, because I know you asked the question in all seriousness, and I don’t want to appear to be sidestepping it. But I truly have no answer, because I don’t know what the question means.

We have heard for the last 25 year, though, that the “other side” is the epitome of evil, not to be trusted not to destroy a steel ball with a rubber mallet, kicks puppies, and we are the ONLY ones with the knowledge and ability to govern.

That’s what I love about this site, and what I love about discussing things with you.

However, on this point…

And the fact that we prob­a­bly dif­fer on the causes throws a bit of a wrench into find­ing agree­able solutions.

…I respectfully disagree. All it takes is the will to say, “we’ll try my solution for a while, then if it doesn’t work, we’ll try yours for a while.” If we keep in mind we are trying to perfect what is already good. If we fervently believe that The Other Side’s suggestion is going to destroy stuff — that’s why we have legislators and an executive with veto power, and a judiciary to make sure the rules are followed. We just need to learn to trust each other.

Glad we all can agree that we want America to be the best it can be.

One thing I note in #753, is that the things you mention are all conditions and circumstances that are happening. These are different from the policy and policy-making issues that were presented in the earlier comments.

Thanks. 

I completely agree that we all want the same for the country, just have different ideas of how to go about achieving them. And the fact that we probably differ on the causes throws a bit of a wrench into finding agreeable solutions.