Open Mic October 19

Women in Bindage
What happened this week? Here are a few highlights: We had a lively presidential debate, that may have put the Republican candidate in a binder. Yesterday evening, both combatants proved they could have second careers as stand-up comics. The most impressive duo on stage last week, however, may have been The Big Dog and The Boss. In other news, a U.S. Appeals court has ruled the Defense of Marriage Act is unconstitutional. The FDA and CDC are in the process of proving government is necessary. Uma Thurman seems to have trouble making decisions. Curiosity, NASA’s new Mars Rover, is getting some work done between snacks. A new study shows that hay fever and asthma could save your life.
That’s just a sampling of the week’s events. It’s your turn to start a conversation.
Don’t see an article on a particular topic, but want to talk about it somewhere? This is Open Mic. Talk about whatever you want, but stay respectful.
We create a new Open Mic every week to give a clean slate, but feel free to add to this topic at any time.

This entry was posted by Logarchism.com on October 19, 2012 at 3:00 am, and is filed under Open Mic. Follow any responses to this post through RSS 2.0.You can leave a response or trackback from your own site.
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#2 written by Max 7 months ago
FINALLY, got a cleaned up transcript of what Felix said just before making that LONG first step:
“Sometimes you have to be up really high to see how small you are. I’m going home now.”

This was one of the coolest things that I have seen in a lifetime of seeing and doing some pretty cool stuff. Watching Joe Kittinger (pilot, POW, record setter, great individual), whom I have the privilege of knowing through our commonality of hot air ballooning, acting as advisor and capcom for the guy breaking his half-century old record, was a real joy! Joe’s words to Felix were: “Our guardian angels are with you.”.
BTW, this photo shows the balloon to be about 15 miles east of Roswell. The white features below are the Mescalero Sand Dunes. Caprock, NM is at the extreme lower left corner.
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#3 written by DrFunguy 7 months ago
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Max, I agree, Baumgartner’s leap was one of the coolest things ever. I would not be surprised if, a century from now, spacediving from even greater heights becomes a well-practiced sport the way skydiving is now.
One of the biggest problems they’d have to solve is preventing the diver from spinning before getting deep enough into the atmosphere to be able to control the attitude. Perhaps carrying a small gyroscope would help.
I wonder how high one would have to fall from before the heat of re-entry becomes a problem?
An amazing feat all around.
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#5 written by mclever 7 months ago
Interesting gender splits on what issues are most important according to Gallup’s most recent poll:
For women: Abortion rights is the #1 issue for 39%, topping out Jobs (19%), healthcare (18%), economy (16%), and equal pay/opportunity (15%).
For men: Jobs is the #1 issue for 38%, topping out the economy (37%), deficits (10%), healthcare (10%), and taxes (6%).
Obviously, Jobs ends up as the combined #1 issue, but the split on women’s priorities is striking, and perhaps explains why candidates were willing to spend so much time addressing women’s concerns during the most recent debate. More women vote, too…
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#6 written by mclever 7 months ago
Biden said in Las Vegas:
Ryan has written a book called ‘The Young Guns‘ with two other fellas, members of the House, Republican leaders in the House … unfortunately the bullets are aimed at you.
Funny joke, or over the line? If you’re going to call yourself a “young gun,” does that make it tacitly OK for someone else to joke about where you’re aiming your bullets?
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#7 written by mclever 7 months ago
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If you’re going to call yourself a “young gun,” does that make it
tacitly OK for someone else to joke about where you’re aiming your
bullets?I think it opens one up to such responses, yes. I don’t know if it is “OK”, but if a candidate compares himself to a wild west outlaw/gunslinger, then opponents are justified in continuing the analogy. And the people who called themselves “young guns” are certainly not justified in complaining about it.
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#9 written by Max 7 months ago
“heat from re-entry”
Not as much of a problem as you may think. The heat of re-entry is almost all due to the horizontal component of re-entry. Slowing down from orbital speed/escape velocity of 17,500 mph or greater, relative to the surface of Earth. That said, an object intersecting the Earth’s orbit, already orbiting the sun, will also be at those velocities and thus generate a heat problem. Same can be said for an object falling from high orbits, say thousands of miles AGL.
But what is the velocity of an object at the TOP of a very steep parabola? Or a baseball thrown straight up? Zero. Consider the balloon jump as essentially the same. Also remember that the Spaceship I is going up to 62+ miles and returning w/o heating being an issue. They also use the high drag “feather” to minimize velocity gain.
Any “space jump” would almost certainly be from the peak of a high, tight parabolic launch vehicle, or balloons, to avoid the orbital speed problem associated with jumping from an orbital vehicle.
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#10 written by MoldyMe 7 months ago
A totally random comment here about voting. Like Dr F and WA 7th and maybe others, I’m from WA State. We’re living out of the country, and it was a thrill to get my ballot the other day and to be able to vote electronically.
Kudos to our Republican Secretary of State, Sam Reed, who championed voting by mail, and kudos, too, to the head of King County Elections, Sherril Huff. It is my profound wish that they serve as a model for the rest of the US.
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#11 written by DrFunguy 7 months ago
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“heat from re-entry”
Not as much of a problem as you may think.
Very cool. Thanks. I’ve beenwoking for a couple of years on a story which has, as one component, the idea of spacediving as a sport, jumping off a platform 160 km up that is suspended from the end of a tether attached to a station in geosynchronous orbit. The fall from that height may be enough to build up speeds sufficient to require heat shielding. I need to do some math.
Baumgartner’s fall gave me some useful data on how far into the atmo you fall before you can control the fall, and when a parachute can open, and proof that humans can survive falling at supersonic speeds.
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#13 written by PNE 7 months ago
While we’re on the subject of voting, my college is having an early vote day today, where they’re trying to get as many students as possible to vote early. Our Congresswoman will actually have an event on campus to rally the voters.
While I think this is great, I still plan to vote on Election Day. It’ll just seem like a more real voting experience that day. Oh, and P.S., I’ve actually never voted before, so I’m very excited. Only 18 days left!
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#14 written by WA7th 7 months ago
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#15 written by Max 7 months ago
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#18 written by mclever 7 months ago
@PNE
This year, I voted early (as early as possible) here in Iowa, but I remember how much I wanted to vote in person on election day the first time I voted, too. It makes it feel just that little bit more real.
Here in Iowa, about 1 out of 5 have already voted. Makes the almost daily telephone polls interesting, because none of them yet have had the “already voted” option. Questions are still phrased as if everyone were persuadable.
The poll I got yesterday was an in-person call focusing on the local congressional race, but the woman making the call barely spoke English and couldn’t understand me when I answered the “will you definitely/likely/not likely/definitely not be voting” question with “Do you have an option for already voted?” She was confused and just repeated the question in heavily accented English, so I said “You’d better mark me as definitely since I already voted.” The large number of words evidently confused her, so I finally rolled my eyes and just said, “Definitely.” (At least the guy on Monday got the joke and answered my “already voted” remark with “Should I mark you as Definitely then?”) Just like Monday’s poll, the rest of the questions were all phrased as “will you be more likely to vote for…” which I answered with who I’d already voted for. Then, there was the kicker, she asked one of those hypotheticals, if I tell you [blah blah blah] will that change who you are likely to vote for on Nov 6? “No, because I already voted.” She insisted that I rate the likelihood of changing my vote on the standard 4-point scale. Just to be perverse, I almost answered that it was very likely to change my vote, but I was good and told them I was unlikely to change my vote. Really, if you’re going to be polling about the local Iowa races, the questions should take into account that a lot of people here have voted already.
That was yesterday. Today, I got a poll from an Iowa RNC outfit that was just as ill-prepared to deal with a voter who’d already voted. I can almost forgive the national pollsters for not being on the ball, but if you’re an Iowa organization polling Iowa specifically, then it’s really unforgivable that they aren’t prepared for voters who’ve already voted as 20% of my fellow Iowans already have.
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#19 written by DrFunguy 7 months ago
Michael,
My e-vote went like this: I download a ballot, print it, fill it out, scan it then email it to the county… I agree its not ideal, but I can vote easily and remotely which is what I think is cool. There is a privacy cover page following the identity verification page of the ballot, so you have to trust them not to look at your ballot (of course I am trusting the ballot will be printed and put in the tally bag as well.
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#20 written by mclever 7 months ago
Republican Rep Walsh (Tammy Duckworth’s opponent) in Illinois says that there is no need for a “life of the mother” exception to abortion, because “modern technology and science” has made that no longer a concern. “You can’t point to a single instance,” he says.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82620.html
My guess is that this plays just about as well with suburban Chicago as Akin’s comments about forcible rape…
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#21 written by mclever 7 months ago
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#23 written by DrFunguy 7 months ago
Michael,
How do they ensure that a person votes only once:your personal info is on a cover sheet, I assume that they compare that to the voter registration database.
How do you as the voter have assurance of confidentiality.
There is a ‘privacy sheet’ following the ‘Declaration and signature’ page. That is all I know, but I agree with your concern re. confidentiality. -
#24 written by shortchain 7 months ago
I’d be a bit hesitant about jumping out off a “beanstalk” at anything very high. Say you jump at 150 miles up. Basically there’s no air resistance to slow you down until you get to 80 miles up, by which time you will be going 3300 miles per hour. I have a feeling you’d better be wearing your asbestos undergarments when you hit the denser air.
If you want to check the math, here it is: accel = –32.2 feet/sec. Velocity = –32.2 * time (in seconds). altitude is therefore a0 — 16.1*t-squared (in feet, time in seconds). Set the vertical distance dropped from 150 miles to 80, and you get about 370,000 feet. Divide by 16.1, take the square root, and you get 151 seconds. Now put that back in the equation above for Velocity, multiply by 3600 (seconds/hr) and divide by 5280 (feet/mile) to get MPH. 3300.
Far better than 18000 MPH, of course, but I’m thinking you’d need some significant thermal protection.
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#26 written by shortchain 7 months ago
DC,
The density of the atmosphere above about 25 miles is so small that it offers little resistance to an object like the human body. I used 80 miles, but 50 miles would be a better number. Here’s a document that discusses the issues.I’d suggest figuring on a velocity of around 3000 mph. Wings are a double-edged sword at that speed. Great, as long as they are properly edge-on to the air flow, but if not — they may cause the vehicle to disintegrate.
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#27 written by channelclemente 7 months ago
I heard an interesting discussion about poll results that, I think, explains some of the volatility and region to region variation. It seems that people being polled are becoming resistant to being asked questions. The refusal rate in becoming a poll respondent has jumped to as high as 80–90% in some areas being sampled. Apparently, that number used to reside in the 20–40% range and be demonstrably unbiased. I’m not sure what the 80–90% effect would be in any given poll, but, depending demographics and Party enthusiasm, it could be quite large.
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#29 written by channelclemente 7 months ago
BTW,
re-entry velocity is more a function of orbital dynamics and the velocity required to sustain orbit, than altitude. In a non orbiting vehicle, terminal velocity is a matter of let’s say balloon altitude, which presupposes air, and therefore I don’t think the actual velocity will be much over the speed of sound.
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#30 written by Max 7 months ago
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CC, you are entirely correct. However, we’re discussing a special case of dropping off the bottom end of a tether that’s attached to an orbital station in geosynchronous orbit, which means it is essentially motionless over a specific point on the surface of the Earth. Orbital velocity is therefore zero, relative to the surface below, but altitude can be virtually anything desired.
However, if you’re high enough, your actual velocity is going to be greater than it would be at the surface, because the circle your path takes has a greater circumference than the Earth does. At an altitude of 100 miles, for instance, your orbit is 200 miles greater in diameter than the Earth, which means it has a circumference of ~628 miles greater than the Earth’s. You travel that distance in 24 hours, which means your horizontal velocity is ~ 26 mph greater than the surface. That’s pretty negligible.
So the only velocity of concern is the speed you’d build up before you hit appreciable atmosphere. I should set the lower point of the tether low enough to keep the velocity sufficiently low. Perhaps even set it at the ~25 mile height that would allow access to the tether from a balloon. That’s a cool idea.
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#32 written by Max 7 months ago
dc,
I think your jumper could use something as simple as a shuttlecock form to protect themselves during the initial phase. The leading nosecone could be thermal material to absorb the heat load, while the trailing feathers would keep velocity from surpassing a specified velocity, with the jumper nestled inside. The design could have a terminal velocity at some number below that of human in head down position for a given air density (altitude), reaching an equilibrium that would facilitate easy divestment.
Specifics are left as an exercise for the student.
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cc,
The party enthusiasm effect makes sense to me. The deeper I get into the polling this season, the more sense that effect makes. We’re seeing some strange swings that don’t make sense based on the overall picture. My reëlection watch tomorrow very peripherally touches on this, but I hadn’t seen the 80–90% number before, so I didn’t mention it. But it would explain a lot. -
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#35 written by Max 7 months ago
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#36 written by PWS 7 months ago
Anybody see clips of the Al Smith dinner last night? There was a big difference in the tone of the two candidates, which irritated me, so I did a little count of the jokes.
Romney made 3 jokes against himself, one actually complimentary, 8 against Obama, most quite nasty, 3 against the press, also nasty, and 5 neutral.
Obama made 9 against himself, 5 against Romney, only 1 nasty (well OK, 2 since the Ryan joke was a slap at Ryan’s character), and 5 neutral.
Romney has better writers, certainly. But he seems not to be able to tamp down either his ambition or his disdain for Obama for even a few minutes at what’s supposed to be a friendly dinner, not a roast. I think this pretty well reflects the tenor of the whole campaign.
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#37 written by Max 7 months ago
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#38 written by Mainer 7 months ago
Michael not sure about 80 or 90% but I’m betting it higher than most us might have thought. The other day at the coffee shop the question was raised about many had received a polling call and then how many had actually participated.About half had received calls but only a very few indicated they had actually taken the time to participate. What also seemed odd was the number of folks that have received multiple polling calls. And here is the real kicker most all of the ones that had played the game were older and female. Not very scientific but it sure surprised me.
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#39 written by Mainer 7 months ago
PWS I listened to the jokes or little monologues as well and didn’t find Mitts material to be better written. But his delivery was so forced it was hard to tell actually. Some of the laughter with Mitt seemed nervous or forced where the response to the president for the most part seemed to be people just having a good time. Then again I may be wrong.
Space Shuttlecock? Fine I guess as long as there are no space rackets to return serve with. Would the next step be a really long bungee cord? I can’t get the image of one of those rubber band bouncy balls and a paddle out of my head.
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#40 written by rgbact 7 months ago
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#42 written by WA7th 7 months ago
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#44 written by dawolf 7 months ago
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#45 written by Mainer 7 months ago
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#48 written by Max 7 months ago
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@dawolf
rgbact — out of interest, how do you feel about the Republican
standard bearer switching positions more often than most people
change their underwear?
I have a guess. Conservatives view it one of two ways:
1) Romney never changed positions. He is saying the same thing now he has always said. Only the librul media thinks differently. We have always been at war with Oceania.
– or else –
2) All politicians lie and pander. What’s the big deal? Romney’s better than Obama.
I bet it’s one of those two. Maybe a combination.
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@Grog,
I have not said it recently, and it bears saying again.
I have a great deal of respect for you. I disagree on almost everything (I bet we could find some movies we both like). Even given that, you are an even-headed, thoughtful, respectful guy. And you put up with a lot from us libruls. It takes a spine of steel to do that, and to stand up for yourself and your beliefs in the face of such opposition. I salute you, and I say again what I have said before — you are welcome anywhere I am, anywhere, any time. (Well, maybe not when I’m in bed at nite .…)
The same goes for rgbact and parksie. I single out Grog only because I cross words with him more often. Your perseverance and patience are amazing.
Thank you for participating. I seriously mean that. -
#53 written by Rose 7 months ago
@ dawolf, #44
“how do you feel about the Republican standard bearer switching positions more often than most people change their underwear? I can say for certain that if it was my candidate, I would hate it, and I wouldn’t trust them.“If I were a Teaper, I’d think Romney was being very clever in lying to get more votes. If I were a moderate, I would think he was lying earlier to get the far-right vote. Being me, either situation would make me run away as fast as possible, but I don’t think that’s the case with his supporters.
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#54 written by rgbact 7 months ago
Rgbact, congratulations on your Tigers making it to the World Series. Love to see those Damn Yankees get swept in the ALCS
Thanks Mono et al. We sure own them in playoffs last 3 times. Gotta admit, it makes it a bit sweeter watching the depressed Yankee faces and all the Yankee rumors of strife that follow. We all felt the TBS announcers were pretty depressed too. Poor guys. Not sure who I want vs. Cards or Giants. just as long as it goes 7.….with a couple 15 inning affairs.
rgbact — out of interest, how do you feel about the Republican standard bearer switching positions
Like? Also please provide Obama’s “rock solid” position on issues Romney has supposedly flipped on.
If I were a Teaper, I’d think Romney was being very clever in lying to get more votes.
Yes. As if liberals didn’t have that whole “wink and a nod” thing going with Obama as he was “evolving” on gay marriage. Flip flopping stops mattering after primaries. Independents like flippers.…like themselves.
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rgbact said:
please provide Obama’s “rock solid” position on issues Romney has supposedly flipped on.…
… and…
… As if liberals didn’t have that whole “wink and a nod” thing going .…..
I called it!!!! #51 —
1) Romney never changed positions.
AND
2) All politicians lie and pander.LOL!
Republicans have absolutely no position. They just hate. That’s the truth. They don’t believe a word of their own propaganda. They don’t have a coherent philosophy. They don’t have any concept of how to govern. They just hate, and right now what they hate is President Obama.
rgbact, thank you for confirming that.
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#56 written by rgbact 7 months ago
1) Romney never changed positions.
Not what I said. I said give me an example rather than a talking point. He may have and I missed it.
2) All politicians lie and pander.
Not “all” but presidents have to largely. Country is so big with so much diversity. Its very hard to lead it without being a huge pragmatist. I’m OK with a GOP congress and a pragmatic conservative leaning president. -
#57 written by shortchain 7 months ago
Give our friends on the right a break. Given the speed at which Romney spins on his axis, they could easily have missed one of his flips. He flipped a 360 on abortion one day last week.
And of course, nobody knows what his plan on taxes is. He plans to cut everyone’s taxes by 20 percent, but it will be revenue neutral, so everybody’s taxes will remain exactly the same. (Note: he didn’t say he would pay for it by gutting social programs while raising military spending by 2 trillion dollars. If you take him at his word, therefore, “revenue neutral” — meaning overall revenue stays the same — is the only proper interpretation.) Or maybe not. Maybe some people will pay more, some people will pay less. Nobody knows, although, with a bunch of Norquistas in Congress (rgbact’s dream) you can bet it won’t be the people with money who pay the taxes.
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#58 written by GROG 7 months ago
Why is it that when Democrats “evolve” on issues or vote no before they voted yes, it’s becuase they’re open minded and willing to change? But when Republicans do it, it’s because they’re rigid ideologues who flip flop for policitcal gain.
Btw, can someone explain, in detail, Obama’s economic plan?
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#59 written by GROG 7 months ago
Kathleen Parker has an interesting column today explaining what’s wrong with American politics today and the ridiculousness of the binder nonsense.
In full disclosure, I should confess that I am a binder person. I have a binder for everything: family, finances, office, home, dog. I do not objectify these aspects of my life; I honor them with organizational zeal. So when Romney said that he had binders full of women, I thought, well of course.
As it turns out, at least some of his binders were provided by a women’s organization that was lobbying the governor for more women in power positions. Good for them — and good for him. He did it, filling 10 of the top 20 positions in his administration with women.
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#60 written by mclever 7 months ago
@GROG
The biggest difference is that liberals largely admit they are changing their mind on something and often offer explanations as to why. For example Obama’s changing views on homosexual marriage rights, or Biden’s clearly expressed views on abortion rights, or Kerry’s (poorly expressed) explanation that he’d changed his mind. The reason you’ll never hear a Republican say they voted for something before they voted against it is because they’ll never admit to having held the contrary position.
Conservatives (and Mitt in particular) pretend that whatever they are saying today has always been their position and they haven’t changed a bit. Mitt has always been for protecting a woman’s constitutional right to choose what to do with her own body, except when he’d be “delighted” to sign a bill banning all abortions. I might accept that he’d just changed his mind, but he’s been touting both the end all abortions position and the won’t take away a woman’s right to choose position off and on throughout the past few weeks depending on his audience. I honestly can’t say what Mitt’s position on abortion is, because as soon as I articulate a position for Mitt, someone else can point to a quote from the past week that contradicts whatever position I pick.
That’s the difference.
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#61 written by rgbact 7 months ago
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#62 written by shortchain 7 months ago
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#63 written by rgbact 7 months ago
That was my point. But you might check mclever’s comment for a clue, or — I know this is a radical idea — you might google “Romney abortion stance”.
Only thing I see in your link is the 2007 debate quote. However, he added the caveat for banning abortion.…if there “was such a consensus in this country that we said we don’t want to have abortion in this country at all, period.” Else, its a state issue. Thats pretty much my exact position, so I don’t see the flipping. Sounds like the debate moderator was doing a nice gotcha question with an insane hypothetical made to make Mitt look bad. George Stephanapolus tried the same idiocy with birth control this year. Mitt laughed in his face.One day I’d love to see one of these moderators actually ask a Democrat if they would sign a law guaranteeing abortion thru 9 months. Nah, abortion gotchas are just for the GOP.
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#64 written by Max 7 months ago
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GROG,
Kathleen Parker has an interesting column today explaining what’s wrong with American politics today and the ridiculousness of the binder nonsense.
Of course it’s ridiculous. Everyone knew what Romney meant. But the imagery is funny. Moreover, it plays into the Romney meme of saying things in extraordinarily awkward fashion. So it’s funny in a poking-at-Romney sort of way, but it’s a distraction.
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#67 written by rgbact 7 months ago
Hey PWS–
Long time no read. Good to have you stop by. Btw, are you related to PNE? Using initials can make things confusing. Maybe try pwsact?
I’d love to see you find a Democrat who wants to legalize abortions at nine months.
I’ll bet its pretty easy. Anyway, you can structure the question anyway you want. The point is to find what the most extreme elements in the party believe.…and then question the candidate so as to accuse them of holding the same belief and also foster infighting.But maybe my wish came true?
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#68 written by shortchain 7 months ago
Hey, DC, today I got a call from some polling outfit. I was busy, so I told them I would not participate. The person doing the poll had clearly had a lot of responses like that, from the audible sound of resignation in her voice.
So they’re still polling in Minnesota, and they obviously are not polling the Senate or House races — not in my district. -
#69 written by DrFunguy 7 months ago
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#70 written by DrFunguy 7 months ago
Michael
I am getting very inconsistent loading of the pages, both in IE and Chrome. Often on longer threads it doesn’t load the final page and often I can’t scroll all the way to the bottom of the page to the comment window… FYII suspect that this is related to going back and forth between the Discus comment you use during high traffic times.And thanks for your work on the site!
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DrFunguy,
It seems to be related to the inclusion of images in people’s comments. Apparently, the caluclations the theme uses to determine the size of the comment section doesn’t take into account the image sizes. That’s a pretty deep bug for me to fix before the election, given my time constraints. It’s not a Disqus thing (though that plugin sure causes its own set of issues). -
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#76 written by Max 7 months ago
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Interesting piece about a nation of childish twits clinging to exceptionalist fairy tales told by low grifters.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/10/2012101611412746767.html